Tobacco Road: Closer to Scotland than Sandhills

[Richard Mandell]

I enjoyed Joe Gay's feature interview about Tobacco Road.  It is interesting to hear the golf pro's take on design and operations.  It was also interesting to see Joe's reference to The Old Course as I share much the same sentiment.  It took me a few years to get to Tobacco Road and prior to my first round there, I heard nothing but negative about it from fellow architects and others.  It was "tricked up", "too blind", "unfair", "impossible to maintain", "I would never do that".

Upon seeing it the first time and playing it a few more times since, I love it, as an Architect and a player.  I think my Architect friends are more jealous of the opportunity Strantz was afforded more than anything.

The main point I make about Tobacco Road is that it is the closest experience to golf in Scotland that I have seen in a long time, especiallyaround the Sandhills.  Many people are surprised about this reference which seems a bit "off".  The characteristics that make me feel this way are the semi-blind shots, the ragged look of many of the bunkers, and the creation of dunes.  It is just a lot of fun to play and much fairer than people give it credit.  

The best part of Tobacco Road has to be the greens, though.  Properly done, the greens have great contour yet are not mown too fast to handle the slope.  In this instance, they remind me of The Old Course and its great putting surfaces.  Proper green speeds and great contours are going by way of the Dodo Bird quickly.  It is good to see a place where that trend is bucked.

p.s. one must see the 7th hole , with a generous landing area and a great green that just screams CB MacDonald.  

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Rich,
You may be correct, lots of wonderful characteristics abound here.

You have played the course more than me, so the angles of seven open up even further and the short game options must be even more plentiful.  Agree or disagree?

I would love to see how 6, 7, 14, 15 and 17 play with different pins.

Best,
Rammer

[Dunlop_White]

Tobacco Road is a funny course to play. The course manifests strategic merit, and I enjoy the shot values presented. Quirkiness abounds though....this is the major common denominator which it shares with Scotland.

I love many Scottish venues though, while I simply do not like Tobacco Road. It is clearly too dished-out and contrived in appearance for me. The natural areas even look manufactured and artificial at Tobacco Road. Volcanic looking dunes, lunar mounds, 10 foot flagsticks, a mess of directions and signage clutter the premises. The noise of those gas carts just beyond the next sand mogul aggrevates me as well.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it!

[Will E]

Dunlop,
You wrote that Tabacco Road has,
1.Strategic Merit
2. Shot Values
3. "quirkiness"
but you don't like it because of the gas carts and directional signs?

It's a bold course for sure, and I can imagine many don't like it because they see it as tricked up goofy golf.  
I've only played TR once, but found it very well thought out and much easier than the slope would indicate.

[TinCup]

Mike Strantz is truely an artist that can bring to life anything he draws on paper.................but does that make for a good golf course?

[Will E]

Mr. Cup,
What do you think of TR?

As I was playing last week I thought that a lot of the holes looked like some of the thousands of holes that I've drawn during important meetings, college, high school, ....
I give Mike, and esp. the owners credit for having the vision to actually build them. No matter what you think of TR you've got to admit it took guts to build it.

[A.G._Crockett]

Tobacco Rd. is quirky only in the sense that it is not traditional in look.  It is absolutely NOT quirky in that it consistently rewards good shots.  Shooter, I agree with you that the course does not play as hard as the slope would indicate, nor as hard as it seems at first glance on many, many shots.

In terms of presenting the golfer with a lot to think about, a reward for a well-executed shot, and just fun, I can't think of anything about this course that I didn't thoroughly enjoy.

Also, I think it is important to remember the relatively small amount of dirt that was moved on this site.  It is not contrived in the sense that a lot had been done to the land in previous lives; Strantz took great advantage of a somewhat unique site.

[Dunlop_White]

Hey Shooter,

Tobacco Road does not remind me of Scotland.

[Guest]

Tin Cup,
 you saud he brings his drawings to life yada yada...is that good?

Dont forget that he is an accomplished shaper and probably makes alot of his decisions in the field, alonfg with his drawing abilities, which are shown on his website.  I think he is one of the fresher thinkers in the industry with every aspect of what an architect needs to be!

As far as Scotland...nope, maybe form eye in some places, but surely not from play.  He accomplishes it in many places, I have always contended that TB is the publics pine valley, with thre ruggedness.

Its so nice to see a guy who does a course for entertainment.  Sure alot here will say is it this or that, who cares the course is like a good book and holds on to the player for the amount of time spent playing....I think to often everybody whines strategy etc without knowing that the game eeds to be stimulating and fun for four hours, or is the game about grasping the individual for 3 holes then making the next few ugly, boring etc....causing the player to lose concentration....is that the strategy?  I would say he gets it and many of the whos who are just stuck trying to folloow a mold.

I hope we get 20 more Strantz's soon and Americans learn to love it....those that hate it are mindless dweebs that complain about signage etc...and whether or not all the bunker are the same depth and raked!  Or if the greens roll the same speed...who cares why not just enjoy really beautiful architecture and enjoy the round of golf...we all seem to at RCD or TOC, so forget the lame qualifications of does it lay for tourneys etc...just relax and let the ball roll and the decisions flare....I am sure he is thinking the same and not losing any sleep over wheteher a few really think he is the next rees, raynor or ross....cause I think if they had the ability with tech they would be on the same level as Strantz...by the way he is the king odf creating the most beautiful par 3 in the last 20 yrs....yep!

[Paul Richards]

Dunlop:

you wrote:

>Tobacco Road is a funny course to play. The course manifests strategic merit, and I enjoy the shot values presented. Quirkiness abounds though....this is the major common denominator which it shares with Scotland.

>I love many Scottish venues though, while I simply do not like Tobacco Road. It is clearly too dished-out and contrived in appearance for me. The natural areas even look manufactured and artificial at Tobacco Road. Volcanic looking dunes, lunar mounds, 10 foot flagsticks, a mess of directions and signage clutter the premises. The noise of those gas carts just beyond the next sand mogul aggrevates me as well.

>I'm sorry, but I just don't see it!


Your description here is perfect!  

While Tobacco Road is a nice course, it does not in the least remind me of Scotland.

[Will E]

Dunlop,
I think you wrote:
I love many Scottish venues though, while I simply do not like Tobacco Road.

[/quote]

Dunlop,
Sorry if you felt I took your comments out of context. I also thought you would like Tabacco Road.

I'll agree that Tabacco Road is not what golf is in Scotland. I thought the course shared a great deal of the same looks found at Fazio's World Woods Pine Barrens course.
Tabacco Road is; as you described "Funny Golf". I like comedy once in a while.

[Paul Richards]

Shooter:

As you said:
>Tabacco Road is; as you described "Funny Golf". I like comedy once in a while.

Humor, especially in regards to one's game of golf, is never to be underestimated.