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mark chalfant

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Perry Maxwell Eclectic 18
« on: March 17, 2006, 07:14:27 AM »
Lets try to consider  18 exemplars which Perry designed or co-authored.   thanks....

1 Prairie
2 Prairie    Dunes

3  U  of  michigan
4
5  Crystal Downs
6  U of mich
7
8  Crystal  downs
9  Old Town

Craig Van Egmond

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Re:Perry Maxwell Eclectic 18
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2006, 08:07:46 AM »

I hope Chris Clouser will chime in.. but I will add a few.

12 - Southern Hills
16 - Dornick Hills  
17 - Southern Hills

Jason Topp

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Re:Perry Maxwell Eclectic 18
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2006, 10:23:06 AM »
I like this hole on Veenker. 308 yards uphill tee shot, wicked subtle green, lots of bailout room left. Right is dead because a cliff basically starts at the tree line.



The course has been altered greatly over time but I think this one is original.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 10:25:07 AM by Jason Topp »

mark chalfant

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Re:Perry Maxwell Eclectic 18
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2006, 11:18:56 AM »
Jason and Craig ,thanks. i really hope to see Veenker some day.


Some others I like are Old Town  1,7,14.  Southern Hills 17, and  U of Mich 3 and 18

Jason Topp

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Re:Perry Maxwell Eclectic 18
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2006, 11:44:26 AM »
Mark:

I am not a big fan of Veenker.  It has been altered so often and is really claustrophobic in spots, wide open in others.  

Nonetheless, you will not find it boring.  There are some very enjoyable holes sprinkled throughout the course and the older greens are very interesting.  Definitely worth a visit, but piece parts are better than the entire experience.  I'd love to see what the original layout was like.

Craig Van Egmond

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Re:Perry Maxwell Eclectic 18
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2006, 11:46:49 AM »

Don't forget Crystal Downs #7, we putted on the green for like 15 minutes, playing around.

Chris_Clouser

Re:Perry Maxwell Eclectic 18
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2006, 03:25:24 PM »
With the book coming out in a few weeks, I don't know how much to put in this post as I have a small section at the end that has some of the best Maxwell holes identified.  

Mark,

The Prairie Dunes hole is a good opener and is probably, next to the 7th, the most understated hole on the course where there are so many good holes.  

On your U of M holes, those holes probably should be attributed to Alister Mackenzie.  I talk about the original design of U of M in the book but I don't want to spoil the details.   I don't think I would put a single hole in the eclectic list from U of M.

Jason,

There will be a copy of the original routing of Veenker in the book.

I'll give this a shot and I'll post it later.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 03:35:37 PM by Chris_Clouser »

Chris_Clouser

Re:Perry Maxwell Eclectic 18
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2006, 03:50:16 PM »
Here is what I have thus far, just from the top of my head.

Not necessarily the best, but some good stuff here and not necessarily from the name courses.

1. Crystal Downs - no need to say anything about this Mackenzie/Maxwell masterpiece.
2. Tough one, but I'll give the edge to Oklahoma City.  The original design of Southern Hills and the par three at Prairie Dunes are close behind.
3. A hole that has been eliminated, Muskogee with a risk/reward par five.  But some other good ones.
4. Twin Hills drop shot par three.  This spot doesn't have as many contenders as I would like to see.
5. I'll say the 5th at Colonial, but hard to say
6. Dornick Hills original 6th was an offshoot of the Lido hole concept.
7. Old Town - excellent strategic hole
8. Several tough ones.  I'll say one that might raise some eyebrows.  Twin Hills par 4.  Most courses had a great 8th hole for some reason.
9.  Prairie Dunes.  Though originally the sixth.  I got a birdie on the hole, so that counts for something.
10.  Prairie Dunes - Perry's favorite par three with good reason
11.  Hillcrest.  Just simply a gorgeous hole that uses the landforms wonderfully.
12.  Southern Hills
13.  Melrose.  One of the best holes in Philly when built.  Crystal Downs really close behind.
14.  Hardscrabble in Arkansas.  The hole has only been lengthened since the original design.  Great version of his most popular template hole.
15.  Tough spot, no real stand out holes in his portfolio.  Will have to think about it more.  
16.  Dornick Hills. The Cliff
17.  Southern Hills - wonderful short par four
18.  Melrose - to have a par 72 with and finish with a double-dogleg par five that could provide great drama at the end of the match.

wsmorrison

Re:Perry Maxwell Eclectic 18
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2006, 04:21:02 PM »
"13.  Melrose.  One of the best holes in Philly when built. "

Chris, could you please describe this hole.  I know nothing at all about the course and with a statement like this...I gots to know  ;)

TEPaul

Re:Perry Maxwell Eclectic 18
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2006, 06:58:32 PM »
""13.  Melrose.  One of the best holes in Philly when built. "


Chris:

Then how come none of us in Philly knew that?


;)

T_MacWood

Re:Perry Maxwell Eclectic 18
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2006, 09:13:16 AM »
Chris
I'm a little surprised you didn't include anything from UofMich or Colonial...other holes more worthy or another reason (that we might have to read in the book)?

How good was Starmount Forest?



« Last Edit: March 18, 2006, 11:13:37 AM by Tom MacWood »

Chris_Clouser

Re:Perry Maxwell Eclectic 18
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2006, 07:31:16 AM »
Tom MacWood,

I did include one hole from Colonial, the 5th.  The problem with the eclectic list I put together is that the holes that were really splendid on Colonial are also the same spot in the rotation as holes that were just better.  The 8th was a great par three as the 13th.  The 9th was a wonderful short par 4.  I also tried to stick with some holes that others may not be as familiar with.  In the book I talk a lot about Colonial.  

As for U of M.  The best holes on that course are more Mackenzie than Maxwell. The remainder of the course was solid, but just no other holes stuck out to me as great.  

As for Starmount that course was originally designed by Stiles & VanKleek.  It was not a Maxwell design.  

Tom Paul,

The reason the 13th at Melrose wasn't as well known is because it was eliminated when the Tookany Parkway was put in.  It didn't live that long, maybe 15 years.  There is a copy of the original routing in the book of the course and a drawing of this hole in particular, so hopefully that will help convey the image of the hole better than my description that follows.

The hole had an elevated tee, basically where the third green currently sits.  The tee shot went across the creek that runs on the other side of the Tookany now.  The creek outlined the right side of the fairway and cut off the end of the fairway, where only the extraordinary drivers of the ball had to worry about it.  Then the approach had to go uphill to what is now the 4th green I believe (have to check my notes on that).  The closer you played your tee shot to the creek, it gave a better angle into the small green along with a shorter shot and the safer you played to the left the longer you shot was up the hill.  Oh, and it was almost 450 yards long, which at the time was extremely long for a par 4.  
« Last Edit: March 20, 2006, 07:33:05 AM by Chris_Clouser »

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