A change in venue

[Ted Kramer]

If you were given the task of adding 5 courses to be played as PGA Tour stops in an effort to re-introduce shotmaking and reduce the current flogging mentality, which courses would you choose?

-Ted

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I liked some of the recent Canadian Open venues- Hamilton and Shaughnessy. Two classic courses that did not yield low scores.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Steve,

The Canadian Open heads back to Hamilton later this year. (I recently wrote a Classic Course piece for LINKS magazine in relation to the event.)

The only reason Hamilton and Shaughnessy didn't yield to low scoring was because they were set-up "US Open style": narrow, narrow fairways bordered by thick rough and trees, with some tiny, titled, fast running greens surrounded by aforementioned rough.

Both courses are even better when set-up "normally".

[Tim Leahy]

I would love to see the pro's play Dye's Stadium course at PGA West. Penalize bad shots, what's wrong with that?

[mark chalfant]

Rolling  Green
NCR   (Wilson)
St.  Georges  (Thompson)
Firethorn   (Dye)
Trump   Bedminster (Fazio)

[wsmorrison]

Interesting that some guys on golf channel were discussing this.  One guy said does growing the rough deeper help defend par on courses to the touring pros (I guess they've done that at Bay Hill).  The other guy said that if they can get the courses firm and fast that is the best way to give the pros a tough time as it is way outside their week to week comfort zone.  

Most of the courses on the PGA tour would be a better test in ideal maintenance meld.

I think RGGC is a bit short for the PGA pros.  With the right setup and maintenance meld (its getting there!) it would be a tough test for the pros.  Some would shoot real low (-14 or so) against a par of 70 but there likely would be a wide dispersion.  A little lengthening would make it a much better test yet still retain architectural integrity.  While they have lengthened some for merely the sake of lenthening, there was some that was ideal and there is more ideal lengthening that can be done adding another 200 or so yards.  At 6950 par 70, it would an awesome design for tour pros and remain outstanding for members and regional scratch playes.

Huntingdon Valley would be an awesome addition to the PGA tour and could hold majors.  It has length, maintenance meld that is perfect but would get in the heads of many of those narrow-minded tour pros and terrific shot demands that would separate the field very well.  If the left side of 2 and 3 greens were restored, you could play any tournament on any of the three nines.  It would be interesting to split the field up the first two days.  One day A-B, second day B-C for one half and vice-versa for the other half.  With A-C and B-C during the weekend.  Now that would be interesting and controversial.  Perfect drama.

[Ted Kramer]

If the Tour stopped at RG, I would find myself a nice little spot up around the 10th green and call it a day. I think it would be a lot of fun to watch those guys play that hole. I had a ton of fun at RG last year. Additional length might be necessary to prevent really low #'s, but if it was fast and firm enough, I think it would be a very good course for those guys. . . And I'd bet a lot of them would walk off and say something like, "I wish we played a lot more courses like this".

And by the way, please make sure that #18 remains a par4

-Ted

[Jfaspen]

Wayne,

It's funny.. Last week at Mirasol, we saw semi-firm/fast conditions and all the pros do is complain about unpredictability/inability to "learn the course."

I'd love to see ANGC run firm and fast this year.. That coupled with the added length could drive even the worlds best to the breaking point.

jf

[wsmorrison]

Ted,

I hope we get together again soon.  Spring is ideal!

Jeff,

Agreed on all counts.  I'd love to see those guys in a state other than comfort zones all the time.  I think it would separate the great from the rest on a more regular basis.  It would make a hell of a lot better drama on TV as well.  Then maybe they'll show more than a few approach shots to greens and all the putts.

Augusta firm and fast is ideal.  The changes made were probably too reactionary in that the weather conditions made the course play easier and they overdid the response.  Ideal weather and maintenance conditions should make for a wonderful tournament.  Firm and Fast at Augusta would probably favor Tiger even more.  What do you think?

[Jfaspen]

Wayne,

I agree.  The firm and fast ideal as applied to Augusta would probably shrink the list of "realistic winners" even more.  The reason that I think you're dead on about Tiger is 2-fold.  

First, he has the ability to hit his iron shots extremely high.  That, coupled with his extra length off the tee would allow him to be hitting 2-3 clubs less than Fred Funk or Chris Dimarco and could help him hold the greens easier or give him a more forgiving recovery shot.

Secondly, I think that Tiger's short game/sand game/general recovery game would allow for him to save strokes when shots took an unexpected bounce and ended up in a less than ideal situation.  

In the end, I think firm and fast for ANGC is the correct setup, but I think the extra length is going to have the opposite effect than intended.  Instead of challenging the longer hitters, it's only going to kill the shorter hitters.

An interesting setup  would be firm and fast but also 20mph+ winds.  Imagine trying to hold 7 green with a 20mph wind at your back, some others as well.  

Hopefully the tournament stays interesting and doesn't become a U.S. Open in the sense that birdies are extremely rare.

Just some thoughts.

Jeff