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TEPaul

Re:The Second Golden Age of GC Architecture
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2006, 02:33:18 PM »
"The hole in my theory is identifying technology improvements in the 70's that spawned the Renaissance era between 1990 and now."

Bob:

I'm not sure I understand that. It's very likely, at least in my opinion, that the so-called "renaissance era" (1990?-to date) had nothing to do with technology in I&B or its improvement. What probably spawned the "renaissance era" (both in restorations and new construction renaissance styles) probably has as much to do with a natural cycling back to a time (teens, 20s, 30s etc) and a feeling of greater innocence and taste and style as anything else.

If you ask me this "renaissance era" in golf architecture (restorations as well as the renaissance style new courses) is probably spawned up to 20 years after the fact by the influence of a Ralph Lauren and the prevalence of his entire carefully crafted renaissance style/culture as it is by I&B technology improvement. Not just that but in golf and golf architecture it's seemingly natural to revert back to the time and style it did as we are at the end of an era of perhaps 40-50 years of a style of total excess in golf and golf architecture in America.

Don't forget, this so-called "renaissance era" of the last 15-20 years in a segment of golf architecture is the first "renaissance" golf course architecture has ever had. That's pretty interesting considering golf course architecture had been evolving for 100-150 years before the first real "renaissance" finally kicked in.

Again, I don't think the "renaissance era" (1990-to date) in golf architecture was in any way driven by I&B technology or its improvement. Matter of fact, it may even be truly ironic that way in that it's happening now in this era of huge technologic improvement (distance increase primarily) in I&B, not to mention a bit dangerous during this increasing restoration wave of these older golf courses.

I have yet to see a restoration project, even the best and purist of them that did not add yardage to a golf course during their restoration project. It's obviously driven but a sub-set restoration mentality known as "restoring shot values" or restoring "original design intent". Sometimes not an easy or good thing to do when many elite players hit the ball 50-100 yards further than they did duing the design and construction of some of these old golf courses.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 02:51:01 PM by TEPaul »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Second Golden Age of GC Architecture
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2006, 02:36:50 PM »
"If more owners and architects would learn from the patience that was demonstrated at Friar's Head, then a second Golden Age of architecture could be finally entered." Ran Morrissett in the Courses by Country section.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Second Golden Age of GC Architecture
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2006, 02:44:22 PM »
Tom -

I don't disagree. Let me put my hypothesis this way:

Virtually all eras of gca were delayed reactions to improvements in b&i. The exception is the Renaissance era, which didn't follow any striking technology advances.

Maybe the Renaissance era ought to be seen simply as a reaction to the excesses of the Dark Ages. And for that reason is extremely vulnerable to the tectonic technological changes that took place during its heyday ('90 - '05).

Bob

Joe Perches

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Second Golden Age of GC Architecture
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2006, 02:48:31 PM »
Consider the following hypothesis:
Golf architecture trails developments in b&i technology by about 20 years (give or take).

I suggest these GCA ages align better to the surfeit of currency available to the wealthiest members of our societies than to any "Implements and Balls" improvements.

TEPaul

Re:The Second Golden Age of GC Architecture
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2006, 03:09:09 PM »
"....Let me put my hypothesis this way:

Virtually all eras of gca were delayed reactions to improvements in b&i. The exception is the Renaissance era, which didn't follow any striking technology advances.

Maybe the Renaissance era ought to be seen simply as a reaction to the excesses of the Dark Ages. And for that reason is extremely vulnerable to the tectonic technological changes that took place during its heyday ('90 - '05)."

Bob:

That makes perfect sense to me. I don't disagree with a single thing about it.

However, I think the fact that this "renaissance era" that's upon us in architecture in both restorations and in basically the same renaissance style in new construction that the older courses are is followed by about 20 years after a virtual lull in I&B technology improvement is entirely coincidental.

I think for a number of other and probably pretty extraneous reasons (not even to do with architecture or even golf) this golf architecture "renaissance" era's time had just finally come. Like the phenomenon of cultural or artistic cycling back that always seems to happen in various areas from time to time (sometimes even a few centuries apart) it was bound to happen someday, and so it now has. It's interesting, though, although pretty explainable to most of us, that the renaissance looked back to the era and style that it did.

I think there is even a small irony inside that fact, and that is, at least in my opinion, the best of the Golden Age was probably as good as ever has been (but probably not better than the best of our current renaissance crop) but the middle range of architecture in the 1900s, teens and 1920s and the worst of it in that era was far, far worse than the middle range and the worst of it in the Modern Era in architecture (post WW2).

Bobzee: Are you in your office and talktoable? I have something quite encouraging to tell you.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 03:13:17 PM by TEPaul »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Second Golden Age of GC Architecture
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2006, 03:15:19 PM »
It has been suggested to me that regionally we could compare
Milwaukee CC by Colt to Whistling Straits.
However, since Milwaukee CC is not on the lake, I wouldn't choose to compare them.  The best I could come up with was Lake Shores CC by Bendelow, but I know nothing about it.

In all practicality, perhaps we should not be comparing courses like Whistling Staits and the Rawls course to "GA 1". The architects of GA 1 had no wherewithawl to build such courses.

As for the well heeled funders theory, I guess that means the Rawls course and Rustic Canyon are examples of trickle down courses.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:The Second Golden Age of GC Architecture
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2006, 07:39:31 PM »
Garland:  You could compare either Whistling Straits or Kiawah (Ocean) to the old Lido GC on Long Island, which was all created by dredging and filling.  It was rated as highly (or more highly) in its own day as either of the two modern courses cited.

Bill:  At least for myself, the balls & implements situation has had only a little to do with my own design style, in that I felt it was important to offset a modern emphasis on length with featuring on and around the greens.  I think Tom Paul is right, my personal shift in style was just a matter of not wanting to imitate Pete Dye's work, and looking back on the variety of older courses I had seen as a different model.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 07:42:24 PM by Tom_Doak »

David Lott

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Second Golden Age of GC Architecture
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2006, 09:27:08 PM »
If you want a comparison course on the lake, maybe Shoreacres, though it's not in Wisconsin. There just aren't very many first rate lakefront courses along Lake Michigan. In fact hardly any lakefront courses at all, particularly on Illinois/Wisconsin side. I attribute this to:
1. High cost and value of lakefront property near major population centers, a fact that was true for most of the 20th Century, just not recently. Lots of suitable land away from the lake, at far less cost.
2. Surprisingly little flat lakeside land on Wisconsin/Illinois side. Bluffs predominate, and the Lake Michigan bluffs are somewhat unstable.

Note that the developers of Straits (Koehler) already owned the land, and had owned it for a long time. Also it's not near a major population center.
David Lott