Greatest courses never built

« **on:** March 13, 2006, 08:56:53 PM »

There has been a lot written about great NLE courses - thanks to Daniel Wexler. What are some of the greatest designs never built? A couple of potential greats that come to mind:

Hutchison and Campbell's Modern Course at St. Andrews
MacKenzie's Shore Course at Monterey Peninsula

There were a couple on the coast in SoCal that never materialized, but I don't know that much about them.

« **Reply #1 on:** March 13, 2006, 09:01:51 PM »

The DuPont CC in Wilmington, DE by Donald Ross.

« **Reply #2 on:** March 13, 2006, 09:02:53 PM »

Tom MacWood,

The second 18 at Gibson Island ?

The Flynn Course at York ?

« **Reply #3 on:** March 13, 2006, 09:08:21 PM »

I'd be curious to see what would have been the women's course at PV.

« **Reply #4 on:** March 13, 2006, 09:08:35 PM »

Pat,

The Ross course at York was built, Flynn lost the competition to Ross. The two courses are quite different, I'll leave it to others to decide which they find more appealing. The Flynn course was a wonderful design. Too bad the Yorkies didn't want the same as Lancasters. It would have been the War of the Roses in the middle of Pennsylvania!

Flynn's second course at Eagles Mere was amazing. It was almost finished but the Depression stopped the project and finally led to the demise of the 9 holes that were built out of 18 planned.

Opa Locka was another that was started but not completed. It would have been one of the best courses in Florida if it was finished.

Flynn's two Ritz Carlton courses in Boca Raton would have been good if the Mizner project did not go bankrupt. But the real gems would have been the North and especially the South courses built for Geist.

« **Reply #5 on:** March 13, 2006, 09:11:50 PM »

We may never know, but Raynor's course at Cypress Point would likely have been very interesting.

« **Reply #6 on:** March 13, 2006, 09:15:27 PM »

Very interesting question, Tom.

How about potential modern classics, too, that were never built?

Years ago, Rod Whitman laid out a new course for the province of Alberta at Kananaskis... nearby the Robert Trent Jones courses there. Whit says that course could have been very good.

How about Coore and Crenshaw's Dos Pueblos Golf Links, coastal California, that was shot down? Has any one seen that property? Apparently it's atop high cliffs overlooking the Pacific Ocean.

« **Reply #7 on:** March 13, 2006, 10:12:22 PM »

Wauhilla Aviation Country Club

Planned and construction started in the spring of 1930, have not found anymore info on the course as I am focusing on the earlier years of California golf.

Was to be designed by William P. Bell (Sr.) in Marin County near Olema(West side). Wauhilla had a very novel idea in that they had plans for the members to fly into the course from numerous airports in the western states. From San Francisco it would have been a 20 minute flight.

The times must have been pretty damn good just prior to the depression as the scope for the Wauhilla project shows just how big the ideas were at the time. It seems that with Sandhills in 1995 we saw the second coming of a golf course that would be accessed primarily by air.

Tully

« **Reply #8 on:** March 13, 2006, 10:27:44 PM »

the proposed 2nd 18 at fishers island - allegedly Raynor had routed a second 18 that was never built do to his premature death

george bahto can confirm / elaborate

« **Reply #9 on:** March 14, 2006, 04:00:38 AM »

The Dos Pueblos site is magnificent - would've been remarkable. Immediately adjacent to the north is the Santa Barbara Ranch property - a Nicklaus routing, and perhaps even more magnificent property. Both high on the cliffs overlooking the Pacific.

« **Reply #10 on:** March 14, 2006, 06:45:55 AM »

Tillinghast's 36-holes at Philadelphia Cricket Club. The current 18 is neither of the two courses but rather an amalgamation. I'll have to go back and take a good look at the plans. As I remember it was very interesting.

« **Reply #11 on:** March 14, 2006, 06:53:01 AM »

Raynor's Olympic Club?

Naccarato's Lost Canyons'?

redanman's Pebble Beach (not) Links?

Paul's Ardrossan Farms?

« **Reply #12 on:** March 14, 2006, 06:54:27 AM »

The Carthage Club.

« **Reply #13 on:** March 14, 2006, 06:57:18 AM »

The International Club: the largest golf and country club in the world was going to be built near Niagara in Canada (on the Niagara River). Five 18-hole courses and four nine-hole courses designed by AW Tillinghast and Seymour Dunn and a total cost of $10,000,000, huge amount in 1928.

Membership was to come from every city in the country and air travel was the proposed mode of transportation. The location in Canada was designed to take advantage of liquior laws.

« **Reply #14 on:** March 14, 2006, 07:57:11 AM »

Tom M: I have never heard the story about the "Modern" course at St. Andrews. When was that going to happen, and where exactly? A shame they didn't get to it.

I've seen a routing for the second 18 holes at Fishers Island. It would have been cool, I'm sure, but it didn't have as much prime real estate as the existing 18.

I would have liked to see Tillinghast's version of the West course at Five Farms. It still blows me away that Bob Cupp used a different routing for that one.

« **Reply #15 on:** March 14, 2006, 08:22:16 AM »

The Modern course was proposed in 1937/38 and sat mostly on unused land between the sandhills and the sea, which had gradually appeared over the years (north of Jubilee and New course), it also borrowed the best land from the New course and the Jubilee. Its regular yardage was 6400, but it could be stretched to 7200 on championship days. Darwin was major proponent of the plan and was very impressed with H&C's design. Darwin quoting Campbell:

"....Just visualise its position. Twelve of the eighteen holes will lie between the sand-hills, high and low, and the sea; another four on the wildest part of the New course, and the remaining two on the best part of the Jubilee course, looking across the Old course to the Strathtyrum Woods. And twelve of the eighteen greens will be in full view of the sea. What other links can boast as much?"

The entire article including the routing will be in the next Australian 'Golf Architecture' magazine.

« **Reply #16 on:** March 14, 2006, 08:39:46 AM »

How about a partially built course? Ree's Jones did a course for the Adelphia boys in Coudersport PA. Seems there was a little problem with funding and it was never finished. I actually detoured through there last year attempting to see the site, but found nothing.

« **Reply #17 on:** March 14, 2006, 08:45:13 AM »

Goshenhoppen GC by Kelly Moran. It had/has the Merion-like quarry and some rolling farmland.

« **Reply #18 on:** March 14, 2006, 09:05:26 AM »

Quote from: michael_j_fay on March 13, 2006, 09:01:51 PM

The DuPont CC in Wilmington, DE by Donald Ross.

This course was built and opened in 1924. I have the original plans and aerial photos of the course after it was complete. It looks like they built the course exactly how it was drawn.

It was in play until the late 40s when the land was needed for the expansion of DuPont's Experimental and Research site.

« **Reply #19 on:** March 14, 2006, 09:25:27 AM »

Quote from: Mike Sweeney on March 14, 2006, 08:45:13 AM

Goshenhoppen GC by Kelly Moran. It had/has the Merion-like quarry and some rolling farmland.

I drive by the site every week now. It needs to happen.

« **Reply #20 on:** March 14, 2006, 09:29:32 AM »

John,

I have seen that aerial before. It looks like more than 18 holes as I remember. It's a shame they took the better land and put in the station.

« **Reply #21 on:** March 14, 2006, 10:28:47 AM »

Of course I think the golf course that was not built at Ardrossan Farm (the new site of GMGC) would have been really good. A few of the holes and an arrangement or two would've been a little unusual.

« **Reply #22 on:** March 14, 2006, 12:17:38 PM »

Aronimink has another 9 holes on the original Ross plan that haven't beent built, and from time to time is seems there is discussion about constructing them.
In addition, a few years back AGC (among others I imagine) looked at the Harrison estate a quarter mile or so down St. David's Road when that went on the market. Alas, it was converted into McMansions (nice ones at that), but would have been very interesting terrain for an other 18.

« **Reply #23 on:** March 14, 2006, 01:50:16 PM »

I have no idea whether Tillinghast's Poxono CC (Delaware Water Gap, PA) would have turned out to be his "masterpiece", as the publicity material touted. It's construction was started in the mid 1920's, a very
productive period for AW., but apparently it was shut down
very early on during construction. It would have been great to see how he did.

« **Reply #24 on:** March 14, 2006, 10:00:51 PM »

Dupont was a Ross course? For some reason I thought it was a Devereux Emmet design.

Willie Park II had two important projects that never materialized. Mablethorpe on the Lincolnshire coast was supposedly going to be one of the world's great links. Ocean City (NJ) was said to be the biggest scheme he undertook in America.

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