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BCrosby

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Prince's 1932
« on: February 27, 2006, 10:47:06 AM »
   "Prince's is at the northern-most end of this historic stretch of sandy golfing country extending from the old Cinque Port of Deal, to where the winding River Stour at last empties its waters into the sea at Pegwell Bay, with its enchantingly blue waters, and gleaming white chalk cliffs stretching in unbroken line to Ramsgate Point.  In Napoleonic times, the land on which Prince's now stands was the haunt of smugglers… [W]hat was, perhaps, a grim record of those hazardous days was revealed when the course was under construction.  The digging of a bunker revealed, several feet below the surface, a human skeleton, and through the centre of the skull was small hole which only a bullet could have caused.  It is not drawing on the imagination too much to picture a desperate fight on these lonely dunes between smugglers and Revenue men in which one was killed and was buried where he fell.  In the Great War these same desolate dunes were a vast networks of trenches, hidden gun emplacements and barbed wire entanglements, constructed for the purpose of resisting a possible German invasion of England via Pegwell Bay.

   In the matter of length, Prince's takes first place among championship courses. It measured 7060 yards, and has only one what may be called a really short hole, the third (154 yards)…"

From GI, 1932.

I quote the above because it is well written and gives a flavor of the place. The NLE 1920 - 1940 course may rank up there with the best of other NLE's, like The Lido.

Note that Prince's was torn up in WWI as well as WWII. Does anyone know who rebuilt it (to apparently very high standards) after WWI?

Bob

« Last Edit: February 27, 2006, 10:50:31 AM by BCrosby »

Tony_Muldoon

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Re:Prince's 1932
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2006, 11:09:41 AM »


more coming.

"Work is the curse of the GCA classes...."
Let's make GCA grate again!

T_MacWood

Re:Prince's 1932
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2006, 12:37:25 PM »
Bob
According to the club history - written by Guy Campbell - the course avoided any serious damage during WWI and was restored fairly easily. I believe the work was done by the club secretary PM Lucas, one of the original designers of the links.

BCrosby

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Re:Prince's 1932
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2006, 12:54:19 PM »
Tom -

Wasn't Campbell one of the troika of architects who rebuilt (mucked up may be a better word) Prince's after WWII?

Bob

T_MacWood

Re:Prince's 1932
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2006, 12:58:11 PM »
Guy Campbell and John Morrison designed the new Princes.

Tony_Muldoon

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Re:Prince's 1932
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2006, 05:22:44 PM »


Drawing is from “The British Open” by Francis Murray, and gives the course "as at 1932" as follows. A~ few alternative distances are listed in the GI article above.

1      382      4
2      460      5
3      154      3           154
4      399      4
5      217      3           216
6      436      4           459
7      391      4
8      453      5           458
9      408      4
      3300      36

10      386      4
11      408      4         426
12      456      5
13      411      4
14      202      3         200
15      335      4         345
16      416      4
17      516      5         539
18      460      5
      3590      38
      6890                 7060





This is the 27 holes today with the old course (approximately) drawn over the top.  The two maps are are not consistent as to where north is so you need to rotate one approx 220 degrees to line them up to gether.  The old club house is on the upper right in the old picture anthe lower left in the new.

The biggest differences are on 8 and 11 which played directly across the highest dunes.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2006, 06:11:20 AM by Tony Muldoon »
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Tony_Muldoon

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Re:Prince's 1932
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2006, 06:30:32 PM »
Golf on the Kent Coast by David Dobby offers the following.

The course founder and original owner was Sir Mallaby-Deeley who was also the owner of Prince’s Golf Club Mitcham.  He was a regular visitor to this part of Kent and finding the other clubs wouldn’t admit women he set out to create another club.

“The original... 18 was planned by Harry Mallaby-Deeley and Mr PM Lucas with the advice of Mr Charles Hutchings from the Royal Liverpool club who was Amateur Champion in 1902. It was constructed by Mr PM Lucas, who became the first Secretary of the Club...”

SJ Balfour inaugurated the opening day competition in 1907, won by a net 84 over 6400 yards. At the time more bunkers were planed.

In 1914 the links and original club-house were taken over be the military with a rifle range on the 8th.  PM Lucas fenced off and mowed the greens throughout the duration.

In a letter published in the Deal, Walmer and Sandwich Mercury  after the open, PM Lucas wrote “despite the wind being non existent over the five days and the course playing very fast, only once was the par of 69 beaten and then only by one shot”.

Prince’s was always a fashionable Club and in 1931 the Prince of Wales was President.

During WW2 the club is requisitioned by the military and used as a battle training ground guarded by minefields, barbed wire, slip trenches and tank traps.  “Lord Brabazon likened the use of Prince’s by the Army for target practice to throwing darts at a Rembrandt.

Sarazen on the 6th green (NB the old fishing cottages are long gone.)


Let's make GCA grate again!

BCrosby

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Re:Prince's 1932
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2006, 06:59:50 PM »
Thanks Tony. Very interesting. You have incented me to find the Murray book.

Note that the clubhouse is now at the other end of the property, the access road now runs between the course and Pegwell Bay (not in the inland side) and the old clubhouse is now an empty, hulking ruin.

As noted by several people above, the new 27 look to have little in common with the '32 Open 18.

Bob

Tony_Muldoon

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Re:Prince's 1932
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2006, 06:24:18 AM »
I’ve made the illustrations of the course above larger so hopefully those who’ve played the modern Prince’s can get a feel for where the old course ran. I’ve come across a second route map for the old course in an old encyclopaedia and it is essentially the same as the above one.  I’ve also added a few more distances to the above table as they appear in the following excerpts from Golf Illustrated.  The modern pictures were taken last year and based on the report that 17 of the green sites were reused, I thought they might help give a flavour of some of the holes- even if they are clearly not the same today.

It appears to me that Prince’s might even have existed in 3 forms. The original idea was to have a course which could be played by ladies – but that is hardly appropriate to the post WW1 Course described below.  Interestingly the post WW2 course was again supposed to be friendly to women.



Bob found an article via the USGA archives website from Golf Illustrated by George W Greenwood Feb 1932 pgs 10 & 11.  It was written a year before the Open was played there.



Some more excerpts:-

Prince’s ..may properly be described as one of the world’s great courses. It is pre-eminent, because of many factors, among them length, situation and character, the later being the most outstanding. Prince’s positively shouts its individuality from every tee and green. No two holes are alike...

In the Great War these same desolate dunes were a vast network of trenches, hidden gun emplacements and barbed wire entanglements...

Obviously Prince’s is essentially a tiger’s course

The distinctive feature of Prince’s is the number of dog-legged... holes with diagonal cross bunkers at strategic points.

I have heard Hagen and Bobby Jones say that on a day of wind there is no finer, and no more skilful test of golf to be found...It is golf in excelcis...

The short third has become famous because of its many difficulties, and the fiendish manner in which it is guarded.  A long narrow green is virtually enclosed by bunkers, a dozen in all..



One of the most perfect two-shot holes is the 6th which runs along a narrow valley...Towering sand-hills on the right, and a ridge and deep rough on the left...


(club website todays 9th SHORE)


Known as the Himalayas the 8th is renowned because of the second shot with a brassie which has to carry a range of sand hills straight in the player’s path. Eighty yards or so on the other side is the green.

The tee shot here is then followed by a second over the dunes on the right of the picture over...



The same range of sand hills confronts the player at the dog legged 11th, but this time is concerns the drive. The mighty hitters aim a far as they dare to the left, in order to make the second shot to the green, nestling in hummocky ground at the foot of the hills, less of a gamble. It was at this hole that Cyril Toley hit what is, perhaps, one of the most colossal drives ever seen. Taking  the narrow but dangerous line, he carried the hills at a point 270 yards or more from the tee..

The 15th has been selected by Miss Joyce Wethered as a typical drive and iron hole for her ideal course. The green is set on a plateau with a cross- bunker in its near face. The pin is about 15 yards beyond and a highly skilful shot of the backspin type ahs to be played if the ball is to be stooped.



Two magnificent wooden club shots must be struck if the green at the seventeenth (539 yards) is to be reached, in deed the number of times on which the feat has been accomplished cane be counted on the fingers of the two hands.

MacKenzie wrote in the Spirit of St Andrews (1934).

Princes is very long and difficult. The one-shot holes, although far from easy, have not the charm one has aright to expect on such a magnificent golfing ground. There are some good do-legged holes, but too many of a similar type- that is , a drive over a line of sand hills running diagonally away fro the players.
The Royal St. Georges Courses at Sandwich has amore variety and, although not so difficult, has a more lasting appeal than Princes.

Robert Hunter. The Links (1926)

At Prince’s and at St. Georges one plays in and out of great swales lying across huge dunes, and now and then one is forced to cross the dunes.
On another page he says his visit to Prince’s was in 1912.


I don’t have the relevant books by Darwin and Hutchinson but I’d love to know what they had to say about the course.

Definitely a top ten contender for the next list  “Greatest NLE’s”.
Let's make GCA grate again!