Victoria National

[CHrisB]

Is Victoria National Fazio's best work to date? I have heard that it is very difficult for a Fazio course, and that the site was pretty wild and rugged, all of which sounds good to me. Looking at some of the pictures, especially of the last 4 holes, you'd think Pete Dye before you'd think Fazio.

Thoughts from those who have played it?

www.victorianational.com

From Ran's review:
#16


#2


#6 green


#14


#15


#4

[Wayne Freeman]

I played Victoria National last fall with the head pro and was REALLY impressed.  Apparently it took a long time to even get Fazio out to the property because it's in Indiana, but when they finally convinced him to go out there he was blown away and said there were at least 100 great holes there.  The course weaves its way through an abandoned mining site  creating dramatic twists, turns, elevation changes, with beautiful water holes and views everywhere.
   A couple of things about the course.  It didn't have the "over the top"  feel I found at The Quarry in La Quinta near Palm Springs. That course has water falls and Remington statues all over the place. At Victoria great pains were taken to make it a walker's course-  special paths were created everywhere to maximize the effect.  
   

[ed_getka]

Chris,
   JakaB is the man who knows VN best. I'm sure John can answer any questions you may have.

[John Kavanaugh]

Chris,

If you or anyone on this site ever wants to play I'm easy to find.  Don't feel like you have to wait for summer as I doubt you could find a course better suited for winter play.  If you just want to play golf at any pace you choose I doubt if you could find a more enjoyable course to be a member.  The course is hard without length...too hard for most people on a daily basis...If there ever was a course that shows the difference between architecture that works as a private course and would fail as a public this may be it.  

[Jim Franklin]

Chris -

VN is my favorite Fazio to date and in my top 10 favorite courses anywhere. I have played a lot of places and this one is truly a treat to play. JB is a GREAT host too.

[A_Clay_Man]

Concurr on the quality, in every aspect. Not even a cold December day can take the green out of those fairways. How do they do that?

[John Kavanaugh]

Adam,

The greens, fairways and tees are all the same bentgrass...Don't most greens stay green in the winter..

[CHrisB]

John K,
Thanks for the reply. I'm looking forward to seeing it this summer, because I think I'll be playing in the Friedman Cup this year. Normally it is in October, which is difficult for me, but this year the tournament is in July so I think I can make it.

I've heard that it's tough... The tournament is a 54-hole best ball event and the winning score in a pretty good field last year was 3-under.

It looks "fun tough" though. Hope to see you there in July.

[Billsteele]

Barney-Just a couple of questions about Victoria National: (1) From pictures, it appears that the corridors of play are fairly narrow. Is that true or is there more room than there appears? (2) The course looks ruggedly beautiful but visually intimidating. Is the intimidation real or is it more psychological (this may relate back to my first question, is there much room to miss at VN)? (3) The par threes look particularly tough (especially the two on the back nine), how do they play? (4) Is the ground game much of an option at VN? These questions are not any veiled criticisms (since I have never played there), I was just curious.

[John Kavanaugh]

Bill,

The ground game is almost always an option...I have hit putter from over thirty yards out on 1,2,3,4,6,8,9,10,12,13,17 and 18.  The course if very visually intimidating but wider in given areas for certain shots...In other words the course plays wider for the golfer who can move the ball both ways off of the tee.  If you are one dimensional some holes just get tight as hell.  The par threes play hard or harder depending on how they are set up...and that goes for both length and pin placement.  We are so lucky to be hosting the US Senior Am this year...the USGA and Fazio came out and suggested the removal of hundreds if not thousands...if you count the really small ones...trees.  The spoil piles have all been cut down to make finding really bad shots much easier..Now you just lose balls in the water...and lose them you will.  

[CHrisB]

John K,
Do they have to water the course a bunch in the summer to counter the heat? Or does the ball run pretty well?

How do you think the senior ams will do this fall? Sounds like an especially good course for match play.

[John Kavanaugh]

Last year was just brutal...I am confident as is our new super that the course will run firm and fast this year...It has been in the past but like I said last year was just brutal.

The Senior Ams will do as well as the set up committee allows...In the past we have been forced to set up the course as easy as possible just to get everyone through...I have heard they are going for 6900yds out of a possible 7300...I will believe that when I see it..

[Andy Troeger]

While I've regrettably not had the chance to play VN, I know a decent amount of people that have from the northern part of the state, many for the Indiana Amateur a few years past. Most of them are pretty good players, and VN has hammered every single one of them. Most of them still loved it!