"Bunkers, Pits & other Hazards" # 2 Rae's Creek

[Patrick_Mucci]

Probably one of the most ingenius uses of a feature, a creek, from tee to green, in all of golf.

This feature impacts the tee shot, the second shot, the third shot, recoveries and putts.

When coupled with the topography and the design of the hole, it's a formidable hazard.

Your opinions, comments, praise and criticisms, please.

[BCrosby]

I think it was Churchill who said that never in history has such a little creek meant so much to so many at so many pivotal moments.

What people don't fully appreciate is how much Rae's Creek is in play off the tee. It's why you see so many people playing second shots out of the pines on the right.

The other interesting thing is that Rae's Creek drains from just beside the clubhouse down towards the course, but is piped for its journey through the front nine. It was originally open through the 1st and at the bottom of the 9th. An open creek running through the bottom of 9 would be an interesting restoration.

Bob

 

[Mark_Fine]

Rae's Creek impacts the tee shot more than you might think.  It is the primary reason why so many tee shots end up in the pine straw to the right.  A player realizes that if they over draw it (or fade it if they are a lefty) a little too much, they can make a big number pretty quickly.  A last second bailout is quite common even for the best players in the world.  

The one atribute of the stream by the green that I like most (especially when it is kept more as a trickle) is that it is unpredictable.  Sometimes you might actually be able to play a reasonable recovery shot from down there.  I remember standing there during the Masters and listening to a play talk about just that.  It makes golfers think and when golfers get thinking, we all know what can happen    Knowing the possibility of recovery could exist if they come up short, leads many more players to try to go for that green in two.  Geoff Shackelford wrote a nice passage on this in one of his books and we quoted portions of it in our Chapter 9.  

Isn't temptation (especially when it comes to hazards) a beautiful thing!  

[Mark_Fine]

Bob,
Looks like our posts crossed in cyberspace.  We said the same thing.
Mark

[Ian Andrew]

I think of #13 when you mention Rae's Creek (much more than 12).

What makes 13 more inviting off the tee and in the approach to the green is the possibility of recovering from the creek, even if you hit it in. Somehow that pulls you into taking a bigger risk than if it were a pond (like 12) where you have no chance to recover.

The location of the creek sets up the draw from the tee and favours the fade for the approach. It creates a perfectly balanced hole don't you think.

[Steve Lang]

 

Any creek.. tee to green.. serves the purpose.

How about on a short par 4,.. with two fairways.. cross to the left side of the creek on the tee shot and have a straight but narrow approach shot in exercising accuracy or go down the right side for a much easier tee shot, but much more difficult approach requiring distance control to a sloping tiered green ?

Tee View


Looking Back at Tee

[Phil Benedict]

I know the focus on this thread has been on 13 but I wonder if Mac and Jones were aware of how funky the wind is on 12 when they designed the hole.  I read somewhere on GCA that it wasn't their intention for 12 to be such a hit and hope hole.

[Mark_Fine]

Steve,
Much different strategy/risk reward on that hole and not much chance of recovery there.

Ian,
I agree with you in that I think more of #13 when I think about Rae's Creek.  As far as #12 goes, it is just one tough (and penal) golf hole.  

Phil,
The shaved down banks add to the penal nature of the current design.

[Tom Huckaby]

Patrick:

Ground rules:  are we allowed to discuss this based on reading the book and TV viewing, or is your hard-line stance from before that those who haven't played there ought to shut up still apply?

 

Assuming your stance has softened, well....

It is a formidable hazard indeed.  What I am curious about - and this truly can be answered only by those who have seen it in person, ironically enough - is the visual on 12.  All pictures and TV views seem to be from far above - and the green looks big enough - such that it doesn't appear to be all that scary of a shot.

BUT... I have heard from others who've been there that the visual from the tee does seem to be all creek, damn near no green... That is, it really looks like a TINY sliver, such that the shortish shot is way more terrifying that it normally would be... Kind of a similar effect to what's going on in #1 of this discussion... Is there any merit to this?

TH

[Tom_Doak]

Tom:  The twelfth is approximately twenty feet downhill from tee to green.  But the green is less than 50 feet deep and there's no tilt to it at all, so it does just look like a sliver, while the creek is much wider and more visible.  Still, it is the ANGLE of the creek and of the green which causes most of the problems -- a slight push or weak hit is wet, and a slight pull is over the left side of the green into the bank.

The thirteenth hole is significantly uphill from the landing area to the green [water flows downhill].  Tom Weiskopf told me many years ago that he thought a lot of guys who splashed their second shot into the creek just hadn't accounted properly for the elevation change -- especially, say, a rookie like Billy Joe Patton.

Like Geoff S., I was aghast when they did work in the creek in front of the green to get more standing water there.  You seldom ever see someone go down in the creek and try to play out, as Curtis Strange did in '85.  When there was a chance you could still recover from down there, more guys risked the creek to get to front pins.  Now they either lay up or make sure to make the carry and wind up on the back tier.

[Tom Huckaby]

TD:

Muchas gracias for the clarification re 12.  Combine that with the incredible history, and the emotions and fear must run high for damn near everyone on that tee.  Given it's "only" app. 150 yards as well, it's a shot we'd all expect to be able to do... so it works like TPC-S #17 in that respect also... the psychological games going on there must be huge.

I also didn't know 13 was slightly UPHILL from the fairway - very interesting there as well...

Maybe Patrick has a point about not getting too caught up in the commentary on Augusta unless you've seen it in person?
 

[Kyle Harris]

I was always under the impression that Rae's Creek was behind the 11th green, in front of the 12th green, and in front of the 13th tee.

Isn't the creek that goes down 13 a tributary?

[Tom_Doak]

Kyle:  Yes, technically, I believe you are correct.  But I'm not sure the tributary has a name so everyone just calls it Rae's Creek.

[Mark_Fine]

Tom H,
Either myself or Forrest have seen all of our top 20 hazards in person.  Many we’ve both experienced (hard work but we grinned and bared it   ).  I’m just missing one.  We figured if we were going to write about them and document each one with a hand drawn rendering, etc, it might help.  That said, I don’t think you have to have seen them or been in the hazards to comment but it clearly helps.  

[PThomas]

I think 12 is one of the greatest holes in the world

I wonder why it hasn't been copied more like the Redan

[Tom Huckaby]

Mark:

I had zero doubt you guys had seen the hazards mentioned - mine was just another fun dig at Patrick.  Given the score in our personal digs is about him 300, me 2, well every little bit helps.

 

Augusta just is a very unique course in that damn near everyone has seen enough of it on TV to at least make some comment - but there are a lot of misconceptions and perceptions that can only be learned on-site.

TH

[BCrosby]

The creek in from of the 13th green is Rae's.

Rae's begins up near the old press building, flows through pipes on the front side and feeds the pond in front of 15.

There is another creek that comes in off of the front of 6 that makes the lake in front of 16. That creek feeds into Rae's to the left of the 15th green and which then flows in front of 13, down along the 13th fairway, in front of 12, behind 11 and then off the property.

Bob

[Phil Benedict]

Paul T,

The 12th at Muirfield Village is based on ANGC 12.  I think it also shows up at replica courses.

What can't be replicated is the wind in that corner of the course, which is capricious and extremely difficult to read.  It's this wind that makes it so hard in tournament play, along with the lack of depth on the green.

[PThomas]

Phil - I know about the 12th...i wonder how close it is too exactly matching the original

some GCAers might recall a special Jack did on his greatest 18 in major champ golf...he stood on the 12th tee, held out a hankerchief which was limp...but the flag on 11 which was not far to his right was blowing...I think the flag on 12 was also blowing...

[Dave Bourgeois]

I agree with Shivas in that the contour of the 13th green coupled with Rae's creek is what makes this particular hazard so excellent.  Having to think about a hazard on approach shots, chips etc. make the hole complete.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

One should view Rae's Creek, the hazard, as it impacts not one, but several holes, # 11, # 12 and # 13.

The unique use of the hazard behind and to the side of a par 4 green, in front of a par 3 green and along the left side and eventually fronting a par 5 green.

In the Glen Ridge thread I mentioned the interesting use of an almost, dead straight creek, on six holes.  Rae's Creek has an even more dramatic affect on the architecture and the PLAY of three diverse holes.

It is THE strategic feature which affects every golfer who plays those holes.

You cannot play # 11, # 12 and # 13 and escape the influence of Rae's Creek.

The blending of the creek with the topography is equally brilliant, especially on # 11 and # 13 where the surrounding terrain either feeds to the creek or makes a shot flirting with the creek all the more dangerous.

At the moment I can't recall a feature that has such a dramatic affect on the play of three consecutive holes.

[Mark_Fine]

Pat,
Ever play Pebble Beach or Cypress Point    But we'll get to them later!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mark Fine,

I've never felt that the Pacific was much of a hazard on # 6.

It certainly doesn't have the dramatic effect on play that Rae's Creek does on # 13.

The Pacific tends to be one dimensional, running along the right side only, whereas there's far more diversity with respect to the impact that Rae's Creek has on play on those three holes.

But, we'll get to that later.