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rpurd

Best Bunkered Courses
« on: November 21, 2002, 02:13:12 PM »
Still fuming over the ANGC saga......I thought I'd start an architecture question.  Which course has the best bunkering?  My vote would have to go to Royal Melbourne.....those bunkers are great.  I guess Valley Club and Riviera would get votes too.  Two underrated clubs with strategic bunkering...Myopia and Toronto Golf Club.  Myopia's bunkers were placed over 100 yrs ago and most of them still are great.  That left hand green-side bunker on #11 is still one of my favorites (I guess cause I made up and down from the lip).

What are others feelings?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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CHrisB

Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2002, 02:24:09 PM »
I really like the bunkers at Muirfield and The Old Course, both for their placement and severity.  Love the bunkers at Riviera also.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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bakerg (Guest)

Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2002, 02:32:25 PM »
Anything in the Sandbelt region.  I have never been but I keep salvating over the pictures in the Sandbelt book.  

I agree with the previous posts of Valley and Riveria.  

Best bunkered public courses:
           Pacific Dunes
           Cog Hill Dubsdread

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2002, 02:53:31 PM »
Agree about RM or anything else in the sandbelt, but one can't forget all the naturals at Sand Hills and Pine Valley :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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wsmorrison

Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2002, 05:12:02 PM »
From what I have seen, I would have to say there is a Great Triumvirate when it comes to the Best Bunkered Courses.

Pine Valley:  made-made but natural looking and perfectly placed

Sand Hills:  natural (or nearly so) blowouts combined with strategic placement

And to add to slapper's highly regarded two choices, I add:

The Country Club in Brookline:  in an setting that does not have a sandy subsoil, these bunkers look perfect, are located in ideal spots (particularly those cut into upslopes), are beautifully maintained, and ideally utilized
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:11 PM by -1 »
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A_Clay_Man

Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2002, 05:45:00 PM »
I'd have to add Pine barrens and Wild horse to the list of publics and for privates, sfgc's waves are almost Dali-esque.

Dubbs Dread use to be, prior to the PGA. :'(

Lawsonia for an oldie and Twin Warriors for a newbie.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Will E

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2002, 08:14:11 PM »
The Black Forest course at Wilderness Valley in Waters, MI.  I've claimed for years that it is overlooked in it's fantastic design and incredible bunkering. One of my favorite places to play, IMHO Doak's best in Michigan and second only to the Downs in northern MI. Hope all you GCAers get to see it this summer.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2002, 08:23:48 PM »
This is a nice sandbelt course.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2002, 08:29:53 PM »
The bunker on the top left was so interesting I took a close up. Yes its built into a large mound with an amazing finger going up to the top.  Can anyone build a bunker like this anymore?

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mike_Cirba

Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2002, 08:36:19 PM »
Riviera is certainly right up there from a strategic standpoint, as is Merion.

But golly gee Beaver, there must be something sadistic and masochistic in my makeup that I seem to really enjoy wildly excessive and penal bunkering that attracts me to courses like Pine Valley, Oakmont, Lytham, Muirfield, Garden City, Hollywood (would have LOVED to see it before about 70 were removed), Sand Hills, and the one I'm really looking forward to seeing this Sunday, Shinnecock Hills.

In fact, I've been looking at some old pictures of Shinnecock this evening, when they used to have some serious "cluster bunkering" on 5, 6, 8 and some others which have been considerably reduced over the years and wondering if anyone knows when and why.  I see that architect William Mitchell did some work there in 1967, and I'm guessing that they may have become a maintenance headache.

Still, some of the ground level photos in Dr. Quirin's book, "America's Linksland" are staggering!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:11 PM by -1 »
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Joe Andriole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2002, 09:01:26 PM »
San Francisco GC
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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GeoffreyC

Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2002, 09:21:11 PM »
Good choices so far

I'll add

Myopia Hunt!!!
Bethpage Black
Rosses Point
Friars Head
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2002, 09:38:10 PM »
A little surprised no one mentioned NGLA and its supposedly 360 bunkers.

Are these well-placed?

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Ben Cowan-Dewar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2002, 09:52:18 PM »
Toronto surprises me a little, I have not seen the original photographs though.

I thought Pacific dunes bunkering was beautiful, I have attached my favourite photo.

Tobacco Road as a recent choice.

The Old Course at St. Andrews, or is that too obvious?


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2002, 09:58:23 PM »
Nice pic of #18, Ben!  Wish the weather was that nice when I was there.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2009, 08:59:40 AM »
This is an interesting thread which I think was woefully neglected and there seemed to be a heavy reliance on aesthetics.  A few courses to add

New Zealand
Walton Heath Old
Lederach
Harlech
Woodhall Spa

Ciao
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John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2009, 09:14:13 AM »
Always nice to bring rpurd back to the fore, especially during the holiday season
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2009, 11:00:31 AM »
I scratched my head when I didn't see CPC mentioned in here anywhere....I know its kind of cliche, but the bunkering and use of the natural sandy blow out areas are terrific!
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TEPaul

Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2009, 11:51:55 AM »
Kalen:

Don't scratch your head about why CPC hasn't been mentioned yet. Just mention it and then sit back and see what else is said.

This thread and this subject just may be one of the most interesting questions that could ever be asked and discussed about golf course architecture. I say that because if we all post and sit back and watch without any arguing and diversions we will probably see just how subjective and personal and varied all people's reaction to golf architecture is and can be, and bunkering may be the greatest lightening rod of all of it.

It makes me think again of those remarks of my most valued mentor in architecture quite some time ago (back in March 2001 at Bandon Dunes and the opening of Pac Dunes). When I asked him what he thought about it (Pacific Dunes) he just kept repeating; "It's so different...it's so different."

I felt I never really understood what he meant by that and so this year I asked him again. I asked him if "difference" (a wide spectrum of types and styles and looks and playabilities and impressions and opinions) was what he thought it was essentially all about. He confirmed it and said-----the Deal is in the Difference!

Golf and Architecture is a great big thing and there really is room for everyone in it somewhere! It's a "Big World."

Only problem is that doesn't really work within any single golf course or any single type and style of GCA and that's why the spectrum needs to be so wide and so different from one side to the other side, of types and styles and looks, and bunkers of all kinds around the world.

As for what I think are the Best Bunkered Courses? Let me think about that and I'll get back to you in a couple of weeks or three.
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Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2009, 01:38:50 PM »
It's so funny this thread came up as last night this topic popped into my head.

I think one thing that unites all of these courses is an element of randomness that is put into the shaping and placement of the bunkers. That is not to say there is no strategy in them, but the randomness, whether it be in how they are grouped or how the edges are shaped, makes them look more natural on a golf course.

I'll take any A-Mac course just for the bunkering alone, so CPC sounds good to me.
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Paul OConnor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2009, 03:32:44 PM »
I really thought that Cherry Hills, pre-renovation, had some of the most beautiful bunkering I had ever seen.
Classic and elegant.
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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2009, 06:13:54 PM »
I'll throw in Crystal Downs as one I've played since this topic first appeared and has not been mentioned.
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Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2009, 07:33:39 PM »
Cherry Hill (singular...just one hill, but it's a doozy) in Ridgeway, Ontario, CanadIA, after Ian Andrew's work.
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Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2009, 07:50:39 PM »
San Francisco Golf Club is the best bunkered course I have seen.

The Kyle Phillips redo at California Golf Club is quite breathtaking. 
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: Best Bunkered Courses
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2009, 08:55:29 PM »
Hollywood by far.
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