LINKS Magizine-- George Peper's most overrated

[Dennis_Harwood]

I have not seen a post on this.

George Peper, former Editor of Golf Magazine, and the originator of the "Top 100" list, admits his sin and publishes an interesting article for LINKS Magizine.  

The article basically points out the rating system overlooks many great courses, and puts too much premium on those that are rated--

He lists his 10 MOST OVERRATED courses in world:

1- Pinehurst No 2

2- Royal Melborne

3- The Country Club (Brookline)

4- Muirfield Golf Club (Scotland)

5- Baltusrol (Lower)

6- Augusta

7 Pine Valley

8- Royal Troon (Scotland)

9- Seminole

10 - The K Club

Very interesting!

[Ryan Crago]

i find it ironic (read: hypocritical) that Peper "admits his sin" in course ratings and rankings, then provides a ranking of his Top 10 Over-rated.

I suppose its intent is to start discussion and sell magazines/books, but still.

sigh.

[Mike Benham]

I have not seen a post on this.

About 4 pages back there was the first topic on Mr. Peper's comments:

Link's Overrated

[Steve Lapper]

I have not seen a post on this.

George Peper, former Editor of Golf Magazine, and the originator of the "Top 100" list, admits his sin and publishes an interesting article for LINKS Magizine.  

The article basically points out the rating system overlooks many great courses, and puts too much premium on those that are rated--

He lists his 10 MOST OVERRATED courses in world:

1- Pinehurst No 2

2- Royal Melborne

3- The Country Club (Brookline)

4- Muirfield Golf Club (Scotland)

5- Baltusrol (Lower)

6- Augusta

7 Pine Valley

8- Royal Troon (Scotland)

9- Seminole

10 - The K Club

Very interesting!

Dennis,


     This is a bit misleading. Peper mention of both Royal Melbourne and The Country Club ONLY REFERS TO THE RARELY PLAYED COMPOSITE VERSION of each's twin courses. RM West is not even close to belonging on this list as a single entity!

    I'd go further to add that Peper is mostly a disingenious type of quasi-journalist. He's always making some relatively stupid statement that usually follows some folly he's wholly endorsed or created. He did it regularly among many different topics in his golfing journalism past. The guy thinks he is very bright and very knowledgable about all facets of the game, but in fact belongs in that pile of smug ex-editors whose only real claim to fame is their record of increasing advertising pages.

[Gene Greco]

     George Peper has gone on record several times stating his #1 course in the world is Pebble Beach and appears to laying the groundwork to promote another effort towards this end in yet another golf publiction.

[ForkaB]

Gene

Why knock George for his love of PB?  I've yet to see a golf course in the world that is measurably better than Pebble Beach.

You know, there are even people who believe that the best course in the world is in Iowa, or Kansas, or Nebraska, or one of those places!

Crazy world we live in.......

[redanman]

More importantly:

Who is more overrated, Peper or Whitten?

[HamiltonBHearst]

It would be very instructive if the highly regarded raters on this board would also post there most overated.  

It may be easier to discern an actual opinion from Mr. Peper's list than from the rerating of the same 100 classic course every two years in Golfweek.  

[Gene Greco]

Gene

Why knock George for his love of PB?  I've yet to see a golf course in the world that is measurably better than Pebble Beach.

You know, there are even people who believe that the best course in the world is in Iowa, or Kansas, or Nebraska, or one of those places!

Crazy world we live in.......

Rich:

     Where's the knock on Pebble Beach?

  I love Pebble Beach and would choose to play there over virtually any other golf course in the world.

I have stated in the past that I believe there are 18-20 golf courses in the world one could consider as the greatest in the world and Pebble is one of them.

So is Oakmont. No smiley face. (For George Pazin).

[ForkaB]

Gene

I never said you knocked George, I said you knocked his seemingly perpetual goal of promoting Pebble as #1. As you know, you and I agree on the 18-20 (or whatever) #1's concept.

Oh yeah

It's cold as hell over here and my wife is away on business.  Could you please send over one of your nubile dental hygenists to give me a proper floss?  I'll  pay the going rate.

Rich

[redanman]

You guys have absolutely no cojones whatsoever.

stale?

Let's go back to favorite methods of parking cars

[ForkaB]

red

Surely not as stale as endless unedifying paeans to PV or National Golf Not Links of America?  And sorry for calling you "Shirley".........

Rich

[Matt_Ward]

Can someone help me understand if Peper actually comments in his article if he actually played the courses in question or is the info coming from second and third hand accounts?

Too often people who write the broad based articles that feature ratings and the like it comes from those who do very little of the heavy lifting (playing) and just more of the pontification that lowers their standing in my book.

[A.G._Crockett]

More importantly:

Who is more overrated, Peper or Whitten?

If in determining overrated(ness), you include pretentiousness, then Peper wins hands down.

I would be much more interested in his personal list of great courses that he has seen that are underrated (or NOT rated) and why he feels that way about them.  This list is silly.

[Craig Van Egmond]

A.G.

      On the other thread about this, I listed the courses that he considers underrated or overlooked because of famous siblings.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=22213

Hopefully the full article will be on-line soon for those who do not get Links magazine.

[Bob_Huntley]

I must say it is quite interesting to see which article gets our contributor's knickers in a knot.

I think George has some valid points with his list, won't someone agree with me on that?

As for Peper not having seen x number of courses, I would hazard a guess, that apart from twenty or thirty members of GCA's 1500 contributors he would outgun most of us.

He is a writer and has a license to entertain, educate or just bore us to death, he never does the latter.

[PThomas]

I hope he's already played all the ones on this list, cause he probably won't get invited to play them if he hasn't!

[corey miller]

There is a feature interview with George on this site.  If my memory serves me, he has played all but two on the US list.  I Seem to remember no visits to Crystal Downs and Prairie Dunes.

[Matt_Ward]

I've had the opportunity since to read Peper's comments on the aspect of golf courses that are underrated and concur that a good number of courses are indeed left in the dark when far too often only a select few are ever mentioned and analyzed.

However, George does little service to the sheer array of outstanding public courses available now but often are never mentioned (to his credit he did mention Wolf Creek and Black Mesa). Frankly, the disucssion here on GCA does the same thing. Few people play a wide spectrum of courses covering a broader geographical area and therefore the wherewithal to cross compare -- an essential element IMHo to place courses in some sort of grouping (albeit still subjective).

I would like to see more discussion on courses that can be grouped in other areas -- like yardage for say. Too often courses can be lumped in the same pot but realistically they should be categorized with more of an "apples to apples" bent.  

George Peper clearly strikes a chord in one form or the other. I liked the premise of what the article was about but have to question whether the actual research comes from primary interpretation or was simple gleaned from other non-direct sources.

[Tom_Doak]

I just read the article, and I am surprised by it.  Surprised because I am certain that George has never seen a lot of the courses mentioned in the last half of his article, and it appears that someone at LINKS filled in the blanks, presumably with George's approval.  There's no way he's seen Black Mesa except for photos of it on GCA ... he's been living in Scotland the past 3 years.

I just think the way this was presented is dishonest.  To have a list of great overlooked courses would have been one thing, but to write it into the text gave a different impression.  And some of the courses mentioned are clearly in the minor leagues compared with others.  You might as well just say "there's no such thing as a bad golf course."

On the other hand, LINKS has found a way to capitalize on the ratings hype without taking the trouble to make its own list.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Dennis,

Calling Seminole a typical Florida golf course would indicate that George hadn't seen the golf course, or that he saw it so long ago that he doesn't remember it.  If one thing Seminole isn't, it's a typical Florida golf course.

As to Pine Valley, I don't understand his criticism as I can only think of two tee shots, maybe three that aren't visible, depending on your length.
# 4, # 8 and # 13, other than those three every other shot is visible.

[Jason Topp]

The fact that this thread focuses on the lists rather than his comments which I thought were quite good shows why most magazines make lists.  I thought his comments were pretty worthwhile.

[Steve Lapper]

Dennis,

Calling Seminole a typical Florida golf course would indicate that George hadn't seen the golf course, or that he saw it so long ago that he doesn't remember it.  If one thing Seminole isn't, it's a typical Florida golf course.

As to Pine Valley, I don't understand his criticism as I can only think of two tee shots, maybe three that aren't visible, depending on your length.
# 4, # 8 and # 13, other than those three every other shot is visible.

Pat,

    If I recall correctly, the tee shot on #16 is also blind, or at least semi-blind.

I submit the following list for Golf Rags:

Most Overated:

Golf Digest (along with their ex-editor: George Peper)

Golf Magazine (along with all their past editors)

Links (along with their present editor: George Peper)

T & L Golf

Most Underated:

Golf World

GolfWeek (That guy Klein seems to be seeking to stay under-
               underated  )

The Met Golfer