12 NLE in Atlanta in last couple of years....

[Mike_Young]

In the last couple of years and in the coming year the following courses are being sold for housing in Atlanta area:
Fieldstone CC
Metropolitan GC
snapfinger GC
Hidden Hills CC
Centennial
Southerness
Countryland
Lanier golf club
Berkely hills
Gold Creek 9 holes
Canterbury
Lake spivey 9 holes
How many other metropolitan areas have this many closing in the last few years.  not to say that this many are not being built but just goes to show the increasing landvalue in these areas.

[A.G._Crockett]

Wow...
That is a depressing list.  I had not heard about Countryland, Berkley Hills, or nine at Gold Creek.
The one I keep expecting to hear is Indian Hills.  There have to have been huge, huge offers for at least some of that land.  Of course, they have something like 1500 members and a lottery for weekend tee times so it is probably flourishing as a golf club.

[Phil_the_Author]

Mike,

What are the overall statistics of how many courses & rounds played over the same time period? I would bet that the numbers would show a steady overall growth because of the vast influx of people into the area.

Atlanta has a history of growth in spurts & loosing courses for housing.

[Andy Doyle]

What's the scoop on Southerness?  Is it already gone?  I heard it was going down & the last couple of times I was there is was definitely showing the signs of the death spiral.

That's such a bummer.  I have an infrequent but memorable history (for me) at that course.  My lifetime low score is there and my kid's Catholic school had there 1st two fundraiser tournaments there, which my scramble team won.

Andy

[Jeff_Brauer]

AG,

We consult with Indian Hills, I was there during the golf show to check in on their expanded irrigation lake, and there was zip talk of any of sale.  Besides, there are probably covenants in place, and the golf strips within housing are usually hard to develop.  Maybe the extra nine would be a candidate, but with the membership, I doubt it.

[Ken Fry]

What's the scoop on Southerness?  Is it already gone?  I heard it was going down & the last couple of times I was there is was definitely showing the signs of the death spiral.

Andy

Andy,

I was driving through Atlanta in April '05 and figured I'd stop by Southerness to see if the rumors of it closing were true.  The entrance was chained off and the buildings were in complete disrepair.  The grass hadn't been cut in quite some time.

The course will become part of the Panola Mountain State Conservation Park, if I'm not mistaked.  While taking a look around the area of the clubhouse and practice range, a park ranger drove up.  He mentioned that within a year I would be hard pressed to know a golf course was ever there.

I enjoyed Southerness, Brauer's Centennial and Jones Sr.'s Metropolitan while living in Atlanta.  I had no idea the other clubs Mike mentions are NLE.  Strange landscape for courses in Atlanta. For many years Atlanta was knocked for not having enough good public access golf.

Mike,
Were too many courses built too fast during the '90's to change the climate of golf so much?  Are the closings reflective of the shift in the Atlanta population as more people move farther out?

Ken

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Mike,
A great topic because what is happening is the same thing that happened in Los Angeles shortly after World War II.

In an environment that catered to year round golf, the area lost a lot of interesting golf courses and clubs. While a few of them did relocate, the designs are nothing compared to their predecessors which not only contained many Golden Age values, but are proving to have been very subtle, challenging courses that embraced the once very arid landscape of Southern California. I do believe we had some courses here--maybe not as fruitful as the more populated areas of New York, Philadelphia, Chicago and throughout Ohio--that one would be proud to call a home club.

[Mike_Young]

I really think it has more to do with the cost of land than golf itself.....as Jeff says many have covenants where it cannot be canged and then some of these don't....some of the land is at $165,000 per acre..golf can't compete with that....

[BCrosby]

I'll bet the situation in Atlanta is not unique.

The larger question is what is the net growth in the number of US golf courses in the last 5 years? That is, after you subtract courses closed from the new courses built over the last 5 years, what is the number?

I don't know the answer, but my guess is that there have been remarkably few net new courses added to the US inventory in the last few years. Which would make sense in light of the flat numbers on rounds per year since 2000.

Bob

 

[Jeff_Brauer]

I can't think of any that have closed in DFW, although there are some rumors out there currently.  

DFW and Atlanta are very similar southern cities, although the flat prairies are more condusive to simply building further out on a more or less grid system of highways, rather than Atlanta where the city design must follow the contours.......

Or maybe, DFW, as home of the management company movement is simply more stubborn.

What about Houston?  Any closures there?

[SB]

I would expect some closures in Houston.  I don't what what's happening with home development, but it makes sense at the low prices that some golf courses have sold for in the last couple years.  That's what happened with about 1/2 of the courses on the Atlanta list where overbuilding killed the economics.  The others such as Canterbury, Centennial, and Berkely (didn't know about that one either) just become worth more dead than alive.

I'm not so sure about the management company influence, since they are just as motivated to sell for top dollar as anyone else.  I think it has more to do with the accessibility of the various courses to the population growth.

[Brock Peyer]

That is a shame to see that.  As an Atlantan I wish that there were more new courses opening and more importantly more public courses opening, but as a real estate investor, the land is worth too much not to close some down.

I did not know that about Berkeley Hills, I have a buddy whose Dad was one of the original owners, I am sure that he has the scoop on it.