Lost Dunes and Water

[Jason Blasberg]

In looking at a routing map of Lost Dunes (on Renaissance's site) it appears that one plays over water about 8-9 times, with water adjacent to the line of play several other times.  

For those who've played it, does the water play prominently in the design?  Is it easy to drop a half dozen new prov 1s in the drink?  

From the photos I've seen and given that T. Doak designed it I assume it's intended to play firm and fast but I've read that it has a very high water table, 2 feet in some places, so my question is does it get saturated in rain and dramtically slow down.  

Does this course have the most water in play of any Renaissance design and how does the water impact playing conditions and strategy?  For instance, it appears to place a premium on the aerial game in several places, are there ample ground game options at LD?    

Last, since I'm a picture junkie and it's late February on Long Island, any photos of LD not contained in Ran's review would be a sight for sore eyes!

[PThomas]

if I remember correctly it doesn't come into play that much...I do remember having to hit into - I mean - over it on one par 4 or 5..

[Tom_Doak]

Jason:

It does have, by far, the most water in play of any of my designs.  However, on some of the holes (11, 13, 15, 18) you would have to hit a pretty bad or pretty poorly thought-out shot in order to get wet.  On other holes the water is really in play.

Nearly all of the water hazards were left behind from the mining operation that had occupied the site before the golf course, so we had little choice but to use them as a primary part of the design.  They don't maintain it nearly as firm and fast as I would like to see, but that has nothing to do with water table issues -- the water table has gone down 2-3 feet since we built it.  It only has to do with them growing puffy bentgrass fairways because they think that's what golfers from Chicago like.

There are some holes which don't have a ground game option because of all the water; there are others where it exists in theory but seldom in practice because of the playing surface.  Really, though, the strategy at Lost Dunes is all about its greens, and if you haven't seen them you don't know what you are missing.

[Jason Blasberg]

Tom:

That's interesting to hear the water table went down, I've got to think that is good for drainage.  

When the renovation work was going on at Seawane we had a couple of oops . . . there's a lake . . . bunkers.  They've been filled in since.  High water tables are a hassle.  

Lost Dunes is on my short list and I hope to see it late Spring.  I'm dissapointed to hear it's not as firm as it could be . . . it sure is harder to sell brown that it should be . . . it's so much more fun.  BTW, was seeding the fairways with fescue an option?  

Jason    

[Ken Fry]

Jason,

The fairways have firmed up considerably over the last 2-3 years which does provide additional options to run the ball.  It may not be as fast as Tom would like to see, but it is a significant improvement from the first few years the course was open.  With such a sandy base, the course drains well.

On tee shots like holes #8, #13 and #14, the water adds both a psychological and strategic challenge.  The aggressive play brings the water more into play and the conservative play should make the water easy to clear.

Like Tom said though, the course's challenge really lies in the greens and they are a ball.  Make a trip if you can.  It won't disappoint.

Ken

[Jeff Goldman]

Jason,

If you're going down there you're not far from Chicago, so if you can give me a buzz.

Jeff Goldman

ps.  We have Morton's here too (and the odd golf course).

[Jason Blasberg]

Jeff:

I've never heard of Morton's and I've got the low cholesterol to prove it.

 

Jason

[Jason Blasberg]

Ken:

From the photos I've seen I imagine the water figures in much like it does at Cuscowilla, a few tee shots offer heroic carry options and safer bail out options and the water is also in play for a poor shot on a couple 3 pars.  But I never had the feeling at any point that I was playing a water course a la a lot of Florida golf.  

In other words I've walked off of Cuscowilla recalling the bunkering, cursing my 3 putts (but loving it) on the greens and remembering the challenge of some of the water carries but the water was not a dominant feature.  From what I can tell the water at Lost Dunes is similar in that sense.  

I'm not on an anti water hazard campaign, it's just not a feature that I enjoy enough to enjoy golf on courses where it is the dominant feature.  I guess I find water too penal not permitting any recovery effort, unless it's a half dry creek bed that you can climb into and take your chances hacking it out (both with your play and your trousers).  

I have the same axe to grind with out of bounds down the right side, but that is more my mind than anything.  

I hope to make a trip to MI this year.  There's a lot of world class GCA to be seen out there.  

Sadly, I lived outside Detroit for 14 months (well before Lost Dunes opened) playing Jr. hockey right after graduating high school and never played much golf and never made it to eastern MI or the UP.  (There were, however, plenty of debauchery filled trips across the Ambassador Bridge to Windsor.)  

I haven't been back to MI since 1991, I hope to get there this year!  

Jason