Opinions of Stevinson Ranch in Stevinson, California

[David Ober]

I'm playing there in the California Mid-Amateur in early April and am wondering how much local knowledge I'll need to contend. Who's  played it, and what are your impressions? Have heard it's usually in great shape, and that the wind can blow like ... hard.

Thanks in advance! :-)

[Evan Fleisher]

David,

I'm sure many will chime in here, as we held KP-IV there last April.

That being said...you are correct about the wind, it can really blow out there at times!

Might be hard to assess the course for you, as I'm pretty much a HACK and you are going there to play in a tournament, but overall I liked the course except for some maintenance issues regarding hairy fairway bunkers.

The hole orientations pretty well test the wind in all directions, lots of no-mow areas down the fairways so driving accuracy will be at a premium.  Ground game options are available on most green complexes.  A few forced carries off tees over either no-mow or marshy like areas, but nothing too severe.  Putting surfaces were very good.

Not much else to tell I suppose, but others will definitely chime in soon...

[Jason Topp]

David - Here is a thread to give you some insight

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=17736;start=msg313554#msg313554

[Brent Hutto]

I played three rounds there during the King Putter matches last year. The plus side is that there's plenty of contour to the greens and the green surrounds are generally tied in well to the greens themselves and are kept at pretty similar speed and firmness to the greens. So there can be a ground game in play. Some interestingly shaped holes and just generally a nice routing, IMO.

The biggest downside is that the course is basically built in a sea of tall grass that is practically an automatic lost ball. For daily play they strongly suggest (as in the marshals try to enforce) what they call the "Savannah Rule" i.e. to treat all the tall grass as if it were a red-staked lateral hazard. That is one way to keep play moving among us bogey golfers but in an actual medal-play tournament you're going to be hitting a lot of provisional balls. I would expect the pace of play in your tournament to be truly glacial if indeed you catch an afternoon of over-20mph breezes.

There are also a couple of much commented-upon oddities such as the random strips of very thick rough just off some of the greens. Not sure what they're supposed to accomplish but they are a bit dissonant with the overall design of the green surrounds.

Lest this seem like a negative evaluation, I very much liked playing the course and would gladly do so again. For a pretty reasonably priced daily-fee course it's a very enjoyable place to have a game with your friends. It just isn't a very fun place for a stroke-play tournament, especially given that the winds do blow there often.

[Tom Huckaby]

Methinks the gents have assesssed it perfectly so far - and Brent gave very valuable insight as it pertains to playing official tournament play there.  Yes, they do use the "savannah rule" for everyday play, and of course that is not legal under the real rules of golf.  So David, really the only thing you need to know is that this is a pretty damn penal course - keep it on the short grass no matter what!  That being said, for a player of your caliber it ought not to be that difficult because it is generally pretty darn wide.

It is generally in great shape, and yes the wind can blow.  If it is howling, of course play conservatively and watch the others around you suffer.

That's about it in the way of local knowledge required - oh there is one semi-blind Alps hole, but you'll figure that out quickly.

It is a very fun course and we had a blast there at KP-IV.  But I said then and I'll repeat now - I sure as hell wouldn't want to play it from the tips in a stroke play tourney.  But then again I am not the player you are, David!  I'm sure you'll do just fine.

Just remember to avoid the tall grass - sage counsel always, REALLY wise at SR.

TH

[Brent Hutto]

Just remember to avoid the tall grass - sage counsel always, REALLY wise at SR.

And if you think you failed to avoid the tall grass, taking 20 seconds to hit a provisional will probably save you from taking "the longest walk in golf" a few minutes later.

[Jason Topp]

Not that David would need to worry about it but I have.

Do the rules prohibit hitting two provisional balls?  If you hit the original and a provisional into the deep stuff, can you hit a third provisional or do you need to perform a search first and then return?

[Tom Huckaby]

Jason - you can keep hitting provisions ad infinitum - you just have to VERY clearly state that each is a provisional, and VERY clear state which ball is which. Of course they'd all have to be different.  And of course this could get very confusing.

But make guys like us play a course like Stevinson from the tips in the wind in stroke play, and hell yes I could see it happening.

TH

[Mike Benham]

David -

When we played in the King's Putter, many of the locals had commented that the rough was longer than usual and if you look at some of the photos, it was pretty thick in places.  We had a bout of rain before the KP so perhaps it was because the didn't have a chance to chop it down.

NorCal has had reasonably dry and warm weather the past few weeks, maybe a month or so and if it continues, I would like to think that Stevinson would be on the firm side.  That being said, the course was built, in part, on marshland, and there were quite a few areas where they crew had pumps extracting water from low spots off the fairway in the native grass areas.  I guess what I am trying to say is that the turf could go either way in April.

The wind is normally an issue in the Valley but (more so in the summer) and it could be hit or miss in April.

As for the playability of the course in a tournament set-up, I would ping Jeff Fortson as he played the course 4 or 5 times during his stay with a couple of those rounds from the tips.

King's Putter at Stevinson

And remember, Joel Stewart gives Stevinson a thumbs up ...

[A_Clay_Man]

David, I believe that there is a huge amount of local knowledge needed to compete at Stevinson. Most completely on the greens but certainly there are other advantages to seeing as much as you can before the event. Wind conditions and their affect on putting maybe primary. Especially if you know the general area of the pins for the event.

[Tom Huckaby]

Adam:

Good call - if there's one thing he would benefit from seeing, it would be the greens - there are some wild contours, and oh yes the wind does definitely have an effect.  If he's not used to that, such would be wise to study.

[Mike Benham]

Although knowledge of the greens is extremely beneficial, knowing where to hit your tee ball may be as important.  And with the various doglegs and short par-5s, David should understand when he can step on the gas.  

[Joel_Stewart]

Damn thats a good looking picture of me, the blue vest and black hat really work well together.  I think the thumb ups was actually my over enthusastic reaction to Fortsons massive drives.  I have to get off these beta blockers.

As for Stevinson Ranch, you should burn a day and go play a practice round.   There are certain holes (maybe 3 or 4) on the back nine where you need to know where to hit it and check the yardages.  I'm sure it will help your score in the tournament.

[Tom Huckaby]

Gents:

Not to be a jerk or anything, but in terms of knowing where to hit the ball off the tee, how is Stevinson any different from any other course?  And how would that knowledge not be gleaned from the yardage guide?

Oh heck yeah, if David has a day to burn, a practice round would help a lot.  But I'd say the same thing about Santa Teresa....

CAVEAT - I love Stevinson - I wouldn't have busted my ass planning the event there if I didn't.

I'm just having a hard time understanding this "local knowledge" thing.  I guess I think of it differently.  In a perfect world, hell yes all knowledge is good knowledge.  But in terms of mental preparation and prioritizing in an imperfect world where practice rounds might not be a reality, well...

I'd focus on the greens, and wrap my mind around the idea that there are a lot of places to lose golf balls, and thus gear toward conservative play.

TH

[Brent Hutto]

Joel,

I think the black trim on the vest makes it work. Usually the combination of a darkish blue shirt and a black hat is a little off but with the vest over white shirt and then especially with the black trim you nailed it. Thumbs up!

Alternatively you can go with black shoes, belt and hat but then what pants do you wear? These are puzzling dilemmas...

[A_Clay_Man]

You guys cant see the forest through the trees. It's the brown shades that make everything work. From the black and blue clothing, to the green and blue in the background. Having the glasses right on the horizion is another  composition element that makes this greater than the sum of it's parts.

Huck, David did say he wanted to contend.

[Tom Huckaby]

Adam:

Yes he did say he wanted to contend - another good point, and my bad for assuming one and all have realities like me.

If he wants to contend, he better get his ass up here for at least one practice round.  But even then I'd say prioritize on the greens more than teeshot placement.

As for the rest, man this is another of a series of posts you've made that have sailed over my head.

 

[Joel_Stewart]

Alternatively you can go with black shoes, belt and hat but then what pants do you wear? These are puzzling dilemmas...

Brent:

Golf Digest has an article called "Ask Mr. Style | With Marty Hackel".   I think you should take his place.

I'm sure I was wearing black pants for those who want to know.  I also like the look of the collar inside the vest, this keeps me snuggly warm, almost like being in the womb.

[Mike Benham]

Not to be a jerk or anything, but in terms of knowing where to hit the ball off the tee, how is Stevinson any different from any other course?  And how would that knowledge not be gleaned from the yardage guide?

Yardage guide?  Why don't you tell him to use a range finder?

My point to David was that there are enough holes at Stevinson that he can't/shouldn't just bomb a driver straight off the lay of the tee box.  How much of the corner do you, if any, try to lop off on #1, iron or fairway wood off #3, line of play on #5 ... only David will be able to determine what he can do based on his game ...

And I am pretty sure that David wouldn't have that problem at Santa Teresa.

[Tom Huckaby]

Mi amigo Miguel:

Sorry man, I'm not buying it.  Stevinson doesn't have THAT many holes that are going to require that type of knowledge, and yes, on those where it is required, he could indeed use a range finder. I have no doubt that it will be legal for his event.  But the yardage guide works decently enough also.

And yes, he would also need that knowledge on each of these holes at Santa Teresa:

1,2,3,11,12,15,18

Perhaps it's not as crucial as at SR, but it would be helpful.

My point remains this:  of course if he wants to contend, he needs all of this knowledge and hell yes, he ought to come up and play 15 practice rounds - he's never going to get too much knowledge.  And hell yes he ought to mark for himself where to hit on the holes you have in mind; confirming the yardage guide through his own experience.

I would just continue to contend that if prioritization is required, then start with the greens and the mindset I suggest, because these yardages can be determined close enough via information on hand for one and all.

TH

[Mike Benham]

I didn't find the greens to be all that overbearing, they were big but not over the top.  Perhaps you had more trouble with them because you putt like you are using one of those wooden shafted Clamity Jane putters ...  

[Tom Huckaby]

I didn't find the greens to be all that overbearing, they were big but not over the top.  Perhaps you had more trouble with them because you putt like you are using one of those wooden shafted Clamity Jane putters ...  

TOUCHE!

I do think Adam was onto something... combine those greens with the wind, and if one isn't used to such, well.. that would be freaky, and thus would be a worthy focus.

TH

[Mike Benham]

To alter your quote ... "combine trying to hit the fairway with the wind, and if one isn't used to such, well ... that would be freaky, and thus would a worthy focus."

So the question is, will it be windy in April?

[Tom Huckaby]

Damn you.  That does have a rather large importance.

Must be the wisdom of age.

 

Not sure about the wind in April.  Is it ever NOT windy out there?

TH

[Mike Benham]

Culling through the archives, I harken back to April 2004, post-KP at Rustic, when Gib suggested Stevinson for the 2005 KP, his words to describe the course are as follows:

Take a heaping tablespoon of Rustic Canyon's chipping areas, mix with two jiggers of Eckenrode tee shot strategies (Barona), toss in a jigger of Neal's putting surfaces and have it all mixed together and spiced by a Raynorphile like Harbottle and you have Stevinson.[/i]