It Official - Donald Trump is no longer the #1 target of GCA

« **on:** February 23, 2006, 05:54:05 PM »

I have never said a bad word about Donald's courses. I have actually admitted to liking a couple of Rees Jones and Tom Fazio courses. I try to keep it positive around here, but clearly after seeing this, "I just don't get it." Living in NYC, you think you have seen it all before, but then they throw this at you!

http://www.libertynationalgc.com/

Bob Huntley my friend please don't look!

« **Reply #1 on:** February 23, 2006, 06:07:25 PM »

Quote from: Mike Sweeney on February 23, 2006, 05:54:05 PM

Bob Huntley my friend please don't look!

Nor anyone with dial-up ...

« **Reply #2 on:** February 23, 2006, 06:07:54 PM »

Their site isn't what you would call "subtle" at all. It is quite over the top, which appears to fit the course quite well. There was a good article in the new Met Golfer on Liberty National. The hand laid bricks in the cart paths were praised along with the 5000+ sprinker heads.

Bayonne Golf Club looks like a much more interesting project to me.

« **Reply #3 on:** February 23, 2006, 06:43:57 PM »

I have to agree with Brian's sentiments on this.

But, I do wonder... do all those masters of the universe types run around with that same cantata chorale backround music sung by fat diva sopranos constantly going off in their heads?

Mark Rowlingson, help me out here... What is the name of that piece that plays in the background of the Liberty National website intro?

« **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2006, 06:44:24 PM »

The music was soothing

« **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2006, 06:48:29 PM »

Yes, it puts you quite at ease to fork over a half million jamolies intitiation and 25K a year for tee times and beer nuts.

« **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2006, 06:49:36 PM »

I think the condos and the clubhouse cost more then the course!!

They are like, huge

« **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2006, 06:50:32 PM »

I think the website costs more than Wild Horse whole shebang did to develop!

« **Reply #8 on:** February 23, 2006, 07:01:34 PM »

It doesnt really look like all that bad of a course...kinda like a Harborside, but overlooking the statue of liberty $:-\$

That is one monster clubhouse though.

« **Reply #9 on:** February 23, 2006, 07:04:39 PM »

I prefered the musical melodies on Whistling Straits "The American Club".

« **Reply #10 on:** February 23, 2006, 07:23:46 PM »

I think the clubhouse will be stunning if they pull it off. They should have hired Aidan Bradley to take their photos.

Ciao

Sean

« **Reply #11 on:** February 23, 2006, 07:26:54 PM »

Any course without hand-set concrete pavers with Belgian block curb stone cart paths that costs less then $1 M to install is just not worthy of holding future major championships....

« **Reply #12 on:** February 23, 2006, 07:28:18 PM »

Quote from: Brian Gracely on February 23, 2006, 06:08:59 PM

c) It's in NYC, the overindulgence capital of the world. This seems to fit in as almost a minimalist design.

Technically, isn't it in New Jersey?

Since it is membership by invitation only, will the Sopranos get a slot?

« **Reply #13 on:** February 23, 2006, 07:33:37 PM »

If anyone is interested in learning more about the course, there has been extensive discussion of it before. Search Liberty National, Bayonne, and Matt Ward - he's written a lot of info on the courses.

Here's one:

Matt on Liberty

Hey, what'd ya know, I finally figured out the cool link thing!

« **Reply #14 on:** February 23, 2006, 07:40:14 PM »

Quote from: Mike Sweeney on February 23, 2006, 05:54:05 PM

I have never said a bad word about Donald's courses. I have actually admitted to liking a couple of Rees Jones and Tom Fazio courses. I try to keep it positive around here, but clearly after seeing this, "I just don't get it." Living in NYC, you think you have seen it all before, but then they throw this at you!

Mike - does that mean you won't be joining?

I live close to this course (walked it many times), and it is better than the website. Messrs Flemma and Matt Ward walked it and wrote reviews.

Bayonne does look more appealing, though, and, by NYC standards is actually affordable to join ($150K last I heard).

...and, if I had the dough, I would run, not walk, with a check to join Sebonack (sight unseen) over LNGC.

« **Reply #15 on:** February 23, 2006, 07:42:56 PM »

Don't be too quick to judge this place.....If Bob Cupp did it I am quite confident it will be aesthetically pleasing, strategicly sound and agronomically functional......why does someone start this crap because of a website.....

« **Reply #16 on:** February 23, 2006, 07:52:39 PM »

Mike,

My comment is aimed at the fact the owner is bragging they spent $1 M on cart paths. So?

Also, the claims of the course hosting "future world championships" is over the top and ridiculous. If the course is that good, members, accolades and future tournaments will come easily. How can you predict things out of your control? Marketing is marketing but....

Ken

« **Reply #17 on:** February 23, 2006, 08:01:29 PM »

Most of the quotes used in the menus and in the introduction are uncredited - "destined to take its place among the elite courses of the world" doesnt mean much if it's the local newsagent saying it.

« **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2006, 08:03:07 PM »

I think the clubhouse is going to turn out to be fantastic. Not my style for a golf club, but stunning. And Tom Colicchio is managing the restaurant, so the food should be amazing. Website actually has a lot of information. Agree the opra background music is over the top.

« **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2006, 08:19:10 PM »

Quote from: Shane Sullivan on February 23, 2006, 08:01:29 PM

Most of the quotes used in the menus and in the introduction are uncredited - "destined to take its place among the elite courses of the world" doesnt mean much if it's the local newsagent saying it.

Shane,

Under "Course Factsheet," it states, "Anticipated as a future host of a major championship."

Under "Golf Course Description," it states, "Liberty National will undoubtedly be a future home to many high profile world championships."

These appear to be ownership/marketing department claims. Are any remarks along these lines credible anyway?

Ken

« **Reply #20 on:** February 23, 2006, 08:19:50 PM »

Quote from: Ken Fry on February 23, 2006, 07:52:39 PM

Mike,

My comment is aimed at the fact the owner is bragging they spent $1 M on cart paths. So?

Also, the claims of the course hosting "future world championships" is over the top and ridiculous. If the course is that good, members, accolades and future tournaments will come easily. How can you predict things out of your control? Marketing is marketing but....

Ken

I understand but the way the thread started by mentioning Trump I just presumed where it was heading.....I really think this place will be good....the following quote is from Ran's Feature interview with bob Cupp "The problems arise when the marketers sell on the basis that some golf course in some nondescript place is indeed exclusive because it is expensive. Folks, exclusivity is earned, not purchased. If the golf course is worth its salt, it will flourish if properly handled."

He just forgot to talk to the marketing people.

« **Reply #21 on:** February 23, 2006, 08:23:29 PM »

Quote from: Mike_Young on February 23, 2006, 07:42:56 PM

Don't be too quick to judge this place.....If Bob Cupp did it I am quite confident it will be aesthetically pleasing, strategicly sound and agronomically functional......why does someone start this crap because of a website.....

Mike,

I am the someone. I actually started it due to a MetGolfer article that is not online yet. I have a pretty good track record here of being constructive, sorry if I strayed. I don't like the plans for the clubhouse in the article and then saw the website. I am also sure that I would prefer the Bayonne golf course based on what I have seen.

For $500,000 I really want something more than "aesthetically pleasing, strategicly sound and agronomically functional."

« **Reply #22 on:** February 23, 2006, 08:26:51 PM »

Quote from: Mike_Young on February 23, 2006, 08:19:50 PM

I understand but the way the thread started by mentioning Trump I just presumed where it was heading.....I really think this place will be good....the following quote is from Ran's Feature interview with bob Cupp "The problems arise when the marketers sell on the basis that some golf course in some nondescript place is indeed exclusive because it is expensive. Folks, exclusivity is earned, not purchased. If the golf course is worth its salt, it will flourish if properly handled."

He just forgot to talk to the marketing people.

Mike,

An excellent quote from Bob Cupp. I'm sure most architects feel/have felt this way as a new project is opened.

Ken

« **Reply #23 on:** February 23, 2006, 08:30:24 PM »

Mike S,
Sorry if I jumped the gun.....the name Trump just signifies something like a double knit leisure suit to me and I just knew LN had to be better than that.....
Take care,
Mike

« **Reply #24 on:** February 23, 2006, 08:32:36 PM »

In addition the Metgolfer article is with Roy Fireman's son who is the project manager.

The priorities of Liberty National seem to be geared towards:

1. Wall Street
2. Sell real estate
3. Having a PGA Tour event

Architecture is way down on the list, and this should not be seen as jumping on Bob Cupp.

Mike Young,

Old Donald has been getting some real love around here for his Bedminster, NJ course, however I have not seen it.

News:

Mike_Sweeney

Mike Benham

Jimmy Muratt

RJ_Daley

Craig Sweet

RJ_Daley

Jordan Wall

RJ_Daley

PCCraig

Jonathan McCord

Sean_A

Ken Fry

Mike Benham

George Pazin

Voytek Wilczak

Mike_Young

Ken Fry

Shane Sullivan

Jin Kim

Ken Fry

Mike_Young

Mike_Sweeney

Ken Fry

Mike_Young

Mike_Sweeney