The Firm and Fast Ideal

[Mike_DeVries]

"they are a tool and need to be utilized to nurture turf to still play firm and fast, not green, wet, and lush."

What?  So we can't have green, lush turf and STILL be firm and fast?

I think most Americans think green is good and to get that look, they think supers need to keep putting water and nutrients to the course to achieve that, as that is the norm for their house lawn.  

The critical element for good golf is for the course to be firm, rewarding well executed shots -- I think that is the main thrust of TE Paul's argument.  Fast turf will come about as a result of that, but with today's maintenance cultural practices, FAST greens are achieved without firmness through tighter cutting, rolling, etc. to get the speeds up.  So, I think of LUSH turf as excessively green and overmaintained -- is your definition different?

It's a totally subjective opinion.  What is firm and fast to some, isn't to others.  

Agreed, an earlier quote about the "puff of dust" at the British Open might be the ultimate for some and excessive for others.

I've played with many club pro's and amateurs alike (myself barely included) and the general consensus is that smoothness and consistency of the greens is paramount, and that the fairways provide a good roll after the landing rather than a plugged ball.  So, I have two goals at the start of each season - greens that roll a 9 during regular play, and 11 during tournaments and special functions.  It seems to keep the majority happy.  

Greens need to roll true and be firm, rewarding the well-struck approach, and speed should be dependent on the severity of the greens, not the Stimp reading.  Overly wet green surfaces allow indifferent approaches to stay close to the hole or on the green, whereas a firm green with an open approach and a variety of options to golfers (aerial shots included) is more exciting and enduring to all levels of players.

[Jerry Lemons]

I am a firm believer (no pun intended) of fast and firm. We have nice computer controlled  irrigation system on most courses that should be used to keep turf alive when the good lord doesn’t let it rain.

It should not be abused but many courses do want the lush turf and it is difficult for the best Supt. to satisfy all the people all the time. (you can satisfy some of them some of the  time...)

Even if a supt does a great job of managing water on their course, rainfall may screw up their good plan and it may take days after rainfall to get back where they want it. If you play a course a day or two after rainfall, it just may not be as firm as you want.

Soils have a big effect. that’s why sandy soil courses are considered better than clay based courses.

We all would love to cap our clay courses with a ½ foot of sand but that is cost prohibited.

With firm and fast, the best hazard in the game comes better into play, Tom Doak said it somewhere, Short firm grass.

[Joe Hancock]

Even if a supt does a great job of managing water on their course, rainfall may screw up their good plan and it may take days after rainfall to get back where they want it. If you play a course a day or two after rainfall, it just may not be as firm as you want.

While that is true, it is also true that properly maintained soils work better even after a rain than they do when over-irrigated. On my course, that has been one of the main benefits of turning off the water...better performing soils. The rain only foils me when it is prolonged. And, I'm not talking sand...

Dry it out (over time) and don't cut quite so low....I can't preach it enough. I still don't think many understand this whole thing, however. I believe most golfers, even on GCA, think the road to firm and fast lies in the mowing height, and that totally misses the point.

Joe

[Jerry Lemons]

Mowing height has nothing to do with fast and firm when turf is dead.

My point was when the rain falls, constantly, the course become soft and there is very little a Supt. can do to change the contions of the soil.

Sandy courses drain better.

Thus why we build greens out of sand.

Jerry

[Joe Hancock]

Jerry,

Is it your belief that turf automatically dies at some level of dryness? And, what level do you believe that to be?

My roughs went over 2 months without water this past summer....bone dry, completely brown and carts driving over them....first rainfall and the grass jumped right back up and started growing. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but rather proving the point that green=alive and brown=dead is false.

Joe

[tonyt]

What?  So we can't have green, lush turf and STILL be firm and fast?

The problem is that the average person cannot separate the issue of healthy turf and "green lush" turf. They want it green and lush for no other reason than looks.


If it is a very wet winter, the course will play very soft. No drama. It is what Mother Nature gave. A lot of supers or opinion holders defend soft conditions by pointing out that they are that way in winter anyway. Well that very same Mother Nature gives dry and warm conditions in summer in many places. And what she gives is a pale colour to the turf and firmer ground. Some irrigation may be required to optimise the turf health at these times (and possibly also to prevent firm 'n fast from going over the top and becoming fairground folly), but not as much as is often seen.

Colour should not be a factor even considered over turf health and legitimately seasonal playing conditions.

[Jerry Lemons]

Jerry,

Is it your belief that turf automatically dies at some level of dryness? And, what level do you believe that to be?

Of course not!
I am very farmiliar with dorman cool seasongrasses in the summer.

My roughs went over 2 months without water this past summer....bone dry, completely brown and carts driving over them....first rainfall and the grass jumped right back up and started growing. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but rather proving the point that green=alive and brown=dead is false.

Right I agree, But woudl you not agree that two months without water was not your goal?
How much did you have to reseed this last fall to get a healthy stand back?

We are on the same page, but, Can your bentgrass survive the same situation and jump back after no rainfall? On green mowed <3/16"  I think not.

At Some point water must hit the ground in order for turf to survive and right after that, the course will not be as firm as it was.

[JohnH]

"So, I think of LUSH turf as excessively green and overmaintained -- is your definition different?"

Mike -

Yes, my definition is different, but not saying yours is wrong.  Lush to me is a healthy turf stand, first and foremost.  And a healthy turf stand does not have to be excessively green and overmaintained, in my opinion.  I have seen plenty of these "types" of turf and some were not lush by any stretch.

[Jerry Lemons]

And a healthy turf stand does not have to be excessively green and overmaintained, in my opinion.  I have seen plenty of these "types" of turf and some were not lush by any stretch.

I do agree, Golf is not played on color, it is played on grass, green, ultra green, brown or dormant(dead looking) The worst color usually means the best golf. But we americans have seen ANGC too many times on the tube to believe this opinion.