Painswick

[T_MacWood]

Who designed Painswick? Are there any other courses out there like her?

[ForkaB]

http://www.painswickgolf.com/history.php

Tom

It was the Champion Golfer of 1868.  See the link above.

Mark Rowlinson, Sean Arble, Andy Levett, Tom Doak and others can answer your second question better than I, but I would guess that the answer is "Yes, and no...."

[Bill Weber]

Haven't played Painswick but what it sounds like on here it must be a lot like Machrie.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

There really isn't another course with which Painswick could be likened, in my experience.  Its extreme quirk remains, somehow, fun.  That it held the interest and affection of a host of GCA visitors for several days suggests that for all its madness there is a quality there which brings satisfaction each time the course is played.  Sean has mentioned one or two courses in the region which have something in common.  I'd probably cite Church Stretton, Windermere and Wrekin as having something similar in the vertiginous nature of some of the golf, Bala and Ffestiniog, too, although these two are much more primitive.  The original 12 holes at Macclesfield have some of the mad mountaineering qualities of the higher bits of Painswick, but the new holes added to bring the course up to 18 holes are rather more sober!  Parts of Halifax, Baildon and other Pennine courses such as Mellor & Townscliffe and Brampton might remind of Painswick, but these are all such distinctive courses that they have abundant unique character of their own.  I seem to remember a great deal of Quirk at Dollar, not far from Gleneagles, but it is a long time since last I was there.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Add Welshpool to the list of very mountainous Welsh courses, with a pitch onto the summit of the Matterhorn at the 4th, a monster dog-leg round a mountainside on the 9th, the cruelly climbing 10th, a super par-3 playing obliquely across an abyss at the 14th and a wicked 18th, 457 yards, dog-leg played from one mountain across a deep valley to another mountain, far distant, with a clear carry of about 240 yards if you hope not to lose altitude.  It's a James Braid course well worth a visit.

[Tom_Doak]

I have surely never seen anything like it.  There may be some other good courses of that length which haven't ever been considered on their merits, but I can't imagine any of them would be as wild in their contours and have so many shared fairways.  In most countries a course like that would be shut down by litigation -- Painswick only works because it has been there so long it's accepted.

[Bill_McBride]

With the dog walkers, picnickers, golfers coming from the opposite direction on the same patch of fairway, I remain amazed that nobody gets killed by the occasional stray tee ball at Painswick!

I found the members / players there to be as quirky as their golf course, and it made for great fun.  They were always keenly aware of the position of others on the course becasue of the shared fairways.  You wouldn't want to play Painswick as a regular diet, but a couple of rounds a year would be great.

[RSLivingston_III]

Are some of the wilder holes at Dunaverty similar to Painswick?

[David_Tepper]

Rich Goodale and/or Bill McBride (or anyone else) -

Have either of you played Lincoln Park (5,200 yards, par 68) in San Francisco? All I know about Painswick is from what I have read or seen here on GCA. While Lincoln Park does not have any shared fairways, it does have more than its share of contour, slope, quirk, blind shots, etc. Would you consider it in any way similar to Painswick?

DT

[Paul_Turner]

Nearby Minchinhampton Old is the closest in character that I know of.  It's nowhere near as cramped but  does have the old quarry works on several holes and it's golf on the common.  One great hole, the 16th.

Bath's 17th hole is of the same ilk.

I'm sure there are a few more common land courses that have the hand of Bronze Age man in play.

(Woburn Duchess has an old Danish fortification, a ridge, that comes into play on a few holes.)

[Bill_McBride]

David, not even close.  Imagine standing on the 2nd tee at Lincoln and there's somebody behind the 2nd green ready to hit his tee shot at you!   Painswick has 18 tees and greens but only 9 or 10 fairways!  The hills are also much steeper and more blind shots.  Some of the hole distances are similar -the first at Painswick is only 226 on the card but plays like 320.  Straight up hill, alsolutely blind.  They let the grass grow like semi-rough or else the tee shot might roll back to your feet!  Lincoln does have a couple of shots like that but they abound at Painswick.

General conditioning is pretty similar, but the greens are much larger at Lincoln Park -- picture that!  

Also, imagine waiting at Lincoln while a party of sightseers strolls leisurely across the fairway!  Happens all the time at Painswick.  They may even spread out a blanket.

[David_Tepper]

Bill -

They played the qualifying for the SF City Championship flight this past weekend at Lincoln and Harding. It was remarkable how few low scores there were at Lincoln, which is amazing considering that none of the par-4's are over 400 yards and half the par-4's are less than 300 yards.    

DT

[peter_p]

Bill Weber,
It is nothing like Machrie. Painswick only has two blind shots.
At Machrie, late in the round, blind shots are like overdosing on ice cream.

[ed_getka]

David,
  Bill is right. Painswick has to be seen to be believed. Other than the finishing hole at Painswick, I would say in general that the tamest hole at Painswick is wilder than anything at Lincoln Park. Painswick is off the charts quirky!
  Imagine playing a tee shot off the foot of Lombard street (below the curves) uphill to the top and just for good measure you have to play your approach up and over an abandoned quarry to a fairly small green that will be blind to you unless you hit a big drive. A rope tow up the first fairway at Painswick wouldn't be a bad idea. By the time you walk up to your ball, I can assure you your heartrate will be around 200 or more. And there are wilder holes than that at  Painswick. Try and make a point of seeing it once in your travels.

[ForkaB]

Don't forget, Ed, that the 18th is an horrific RENOVATION!!!!

The old 18th, which I've never played (but will when I'm next back there next!) was an 80-100 yard uphill shot to what is now the practice putting green--1000 square feet of pure kinkiness!

It brings tears to my eyes thinking of Painswick.....

[Richard Muldoon]

I didn't actually play it, but when my wife & I were in Oban a few years ago there was a course up the hill on the way out of town.
This seemed a really quirky course, small area of land, steep gradient, small greens.
Has anyone played it?

[Richard Muldoon]

Further research reveals that the course in Oban is a James Braid designed course. Glencruitten Golf Club
Web site has a good hole by hole guide - www.obangolf.com

[Bill_McBride]

Peter Pittock - come on now, TWO blind shots at Painswick?

Let's see:  #1 second shot, #2 second shot (okay, you can see the very top of the flag), #4 ditto (although I did hear my second shot clang off the pin last time!), #5 over the ramparts par 3, #8 pitch onto the green, #10 over the ramparts par 3, #11 tee shot..... how many is that?  I count at least five.  Or three if you aren't buying #2 and #4.  Those are only blind if you can't hit a 270 yard tee shot up that hill!

Bill

[peter_p]

Bill,
I'll grant you the third blind tee shot on #11. Maybe forgotten because I nearly sank my return chip shot for eagle.The only blind shots I had were over the ramparts. I had time constrains and skipped finishing 8 and 9. Hit drive on 8, tossed it to nine and played that hole out from there. Saw most of the flagsticks you cited (1,2,4), sometimes off great tee shots, othertimes from recovery after poor drives.

Anyhow, it pales in comparison with the blindness at Machrie.

[Bill_McBride]

Sorry, Peter, seeing a target after missing a tee shot and hitting a recovery up the hill doesn't count as not a blind shot!  And #8 is quintessential blind, the green is in a hollow maybe 6' below fairway level, a never boring pitch and run shot, hit it and hope!

Sounds like Machrie is as quirky as Painswick, hope to see it and Machranahinish one day.

[peter_p]

Bill,
You may be right, and probably are, because I didn't stop in the landing area to dispute your claims. On #1 I drove about five yards short of the pit, and the shot wasn't blind at all. see. At Machrie, the shots are blind for all category of golfers.

The courses in Portland have dried out, but we're going to be in a deep freeze for a few days.

[T_MacWood]

Are there any clues to who extended the course in 1906-07?

[ForkaB]

Are there any clues to who extended the course in 1906-07?

Robin Hiseman might know, as he wrote an article on Painswick for one of Paul Daley's books (I think).  Try e-mailing him.