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Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
What does the NGCOA do?
« on: February 11, 2006, 10:13:35 PM »
After attending the golf industry show for the last few days it becomes more apparent to me how "over associated" the golf budsiness has become.  Golf is a mom and pop business.  The GCSAA show has become the GIS and why?? In 2004 there were 19318 attendees, 684 exhibitors and 6200 qualified buyers at the GCSAA show.  the NGCOA show had 710 in attendance, 147 exhibitors, and 442 qualified buyers.
the GCSAA cetainly did not need them as much as they would have needed the GCSAA.  I sense that it was a solution for the turf equipment  suppliers to only have to show once.
I just can't see the importance of an owners group.  I was once a member but could only see a "purchasing group" as the only reason. Buying programs don't work. And I now find out that clubs such as my own club don't even know they are listed as a member.  seems that whenever one buys Clubcar they are automatically given a membership.  Which gives you an exaggerated membership.  When it started it was for small owners but now it has every management company and many of our private clubs that are owned by the membership.  
It is finally becoming apparent that the PGA is subtlely commenting on it's issues brought on by CMAA.  GolfWorld  had an article on the decrease in salaries and this week GolfWeek had a letter commenting on memberships taking the shop from the professional and its affect.
Most golf owners are entrepreneurs and don't need associations....
The PGA and the GCSAA are the two groups that can fix golf but the CMAA has crept in and convinced clubs that they can save money and one of the methods is to dismiss pros and supts in order to replace with less qualified.  And now we have an inflated NGCOA wanting to sneak in as the employer of all the other association members.
The above are observations and are not personal toward the members or executives of the NGCOA.  I jst think we are over associated and I hope the PGA becomes more agressive....
Tell me what they do......
« Last Edit: February 11, 2006, 10:16:37 PM by Mike_Young »
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Jim Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What does the NGCOA do?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2006, 12:26:39 AM »
Mike,

The NGCOA fulfills a couple of necessary roles that the other organizations do not.  I know you realize that without owners there are no courses so please don't think I'm trying to be cute in my response.  It is not my intent.  Just as the GCSAA, the PGA, and CMAA attempt, in their best uses, to aid in solving the problems of their constituents.  The NGCOA seeks to aid in suporting issues that owners face on a daily basis.  In my mind the primary issues are those of water regulation, seasonal wage issues, and one of the biggest line items on most courses budgets property tax and capital tax issues.

It seems to me that over the years to many external organizations have been courting all four of the organizations trying to sell this or that.  Be it a new and inproved buying group, the latest and greatest piece of iron, new kitchen equipment etc. Further I would say, to their detriment, the employee membered organizations have spent too much time telling owners that only their respective memberships can perform duties of running selected sets of tasks for their businesses.  Remember that the owners feel and those that sign the bank papers really feel that they are responsible for everything on their properties and to some extent probably are beginning to resent the implication that they are just lucky to have accomplished what they have done in their business lives and know little about their businesses.  Owners also struggle with the notion that the variuos employee based organizations have been lobbied to make this or that deal with various vendors who inturn make contributions to employee based member organizations based retirement funds thereby putting employees in a conflict over purchasing choices.

One of the toughest things about our industry is that almost every single golf course business organization is as unique as the sites they sit on.  For as much as all courses have in common, they are also very different.

As for the GIS I think it was one of the smartest things the GCSAA ever did.  It opens the door for owners to see and appreciate what supers do and deal with.  The best thing for most owners would be to sit through a seminar on turf disease, chemical standards and restrictions, alternative methods of conditioning and turf managment issues.  This is a good thing.  Its very hard to appreciate people for what they do if you have no idea what it is they do.

The management cmpanies are driveing the buying group concept a the little guys all want to get materials at their prices to be competetive, but this type of item is really secondary to the loobying arm owners need to exert influence on governmental issues and policies.

The existence of the multiple sub/employee organizations also leads many owners to having to deal with how the sub organizations pit themselves against each other, which is really sad when you think about it.  That is just some of the perspectives in my circle of contacts and as we both know perception is reality.  I'm glad to be amember of the NGCOA and in my case more importantly the MGCOA.  Without their efforts or industry situation would be MUCH worese than it is now and I think things are tough enough as it is.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

JT
Jim Thompson

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What does the NGCOA do?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2006, 10:03:35 AM »
A little help for the alpha challenged, please:

What do the initials stand for in these organizations:

CMAA
GIS
MGCOA
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What does the NGCOA do?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2006, 10:10:25 AM »
Alphabet soup:

ASGCA: American Society of Golf Course Architects
GCBAA: Golf Course Builders Association of America
GCSAA: Golf Course Superintendents Association of America
CMAA: Club Managers Association of America
NGCOA: National Golf Course Owners Association

The above-named groups now share a unified industry show, called GIS (Golf Industry Show). The 2006 GIS just concluded yesterday in Atlanta.

GIS replaces the stand-alone annual GCSAA meeting and includes programming from all groups, both separately and combined. Officially, the CMAA joins the fray in 2007 after holding its own show this year, but has been part of the GIS since that show's inception in 2005. Next year, GIS meets in San Diego in late February.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2006, 10:12:28 AM by Brad Klein »

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What does the NGCOA do?
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2006, 12:23:40 PM »
Jim,
I was a member of NGCOA when it first started but was not impressed.  It began as an aid to the small owners but started courting the management companies and then it really got into the bying program...which I cannot see.  I have owned two golf courses and I guarantee you.. you or myself can get a price as good as any from any buying group they have or anyone else has.   Plus the NGCOA charges these vendors a significant amount to be a member of the buying group.  I am all for the small owner,  and I understand lobbying efforts that are stressed but IMHO an owner is much better to join the GCSAA and the PGA.  I just feel most independent business people don't need an association.....
JMO
Mike
« Last Edit: February 12, 2006, 12:25:06 PM by Mike_Young »
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

SB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What does the NGCOA do?
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2006, 03:50:26 PM »
The other thing they do is provide support for local chapters, which  can provide a great deal of help to owners.  

I agree that owners should join (or at least have their supers join) the GCSAA.  I assume by your comments that you are a PGA pro, but the PGA is focused on the day to day issues of being a golf pro as opposed to the bigger picture problems of being an owner.  When it comes to the issues of tax, legislation, law, environment, finance, etc., I don't think the PGA sees a role there.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What does the NGCOA do?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2006, 06:42:01 PM »
SBusch,
I am not a PGA pro....
I am a small business owner and have owned a couple of golf courses....many of my friends are independent business people and most of us don't need an association to tell us what to do.  I had an otdoor retail store for awhile and joined an association in order to supposedly purchase at higher discounts.  Found I could buy much cheaper by negotiating my own deals....plus I don't want the competition to know what I am doing.  Now I agree that some areas may have golf course owner groups that can benefit by advertising the area together because golf perpetuates golf.....or if a few guys choose to hire a lobbyist but most owners don't need to be spoon fed....
So far I have had 4 IM's or emails telling me I am right on but they choose not to post...
« Last Edit: February 12, 2006, 06:42:41 PM by Mike_Young »
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Jim Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What does the NGCOA do?
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2006, 02:00:33 PM »
Mike,

If you want to go it alone, go get 'em partner.  When it comes to groups that I join, I find they spend more time helping to solve my problems than telling me what to do.  Knowing you are as independent as it sounds I strongly doubt anyone could tell you what to do.  I hope golf in your part of the world doesn't begin to face some of the issues we are facing in Michigan: sales tax law changes, water taxation, DEQ construction issues for run off and sedimentation, chemical surcharges pushed on by ag bills.  These are all common issues that will impact all of us in the business and have nothing to do with trade secrets.  I have little methods and approaches that I'm not sharing either, I certainly can't blame you for that.  I agree that many members of the GCOAs are just there to poach ideas and share nothing, the good news is they are pretty easy to pick out as they are all runiing arouind with notebooks in their hands.  I do however appreciate their contributions to the PAC though - stange bed fellows and all that.

The beauty is if you don't care for the benefits of an organization you don't have to join.  It is still a free country.

Cheers!

JT
Jim Thompson

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