[Kyle Harris]

Personally, I love the 12th at Bethpage Black. A long brutal par 4 of about 500 yards with a green that has a lot of movement in it and is open in the front.

Why I like it? Because the fairway is flat enough and there is enough room around the green for me to try and deck the driver.

Hitting driver off the turf is a shot, to me, that should be called for/tempted to do in modern architecture. Now, I'd rather not see it called for over and over again, but holes like the 12th at Bethpage (along with 9, 10 and 14 on Bethpage Red Course and 9 at Rolling Green) that give the golfer at least the option of decking the driver are a nice change of pace and add excitement to a shot over a lay up and wedge.

Let's play these "play clubs" more often than off the tee!

[wsmorrison]

No way would anybody try hitting driver off the deck on the 9th at Rolling Green if the shot counted for anything.  Unlike the 12th at Bethpage, the severe left to right cant of the fairway makes hitting any shot an adventure let alone trying driver.  Not only that but the green is unreachable in two anyhow (because of the slope, distance and uphill nature of the hole) so it is better to hit a club that leaves you with a comfortable shot to a difficult green.

By the way, Kyle, I only needed a 7-wood to reach the 12th green at Bethpage Black in two, you wimp  

[Kyle Harris]

Wayne,

You also didn't play the new back tee...  

Also, BOTH times I've played with you I decked driver to within 7-8 iron range on 9 at Rolling Green. So the option is there if you got game.

Do you have game?

[wsmorrison]

I only have one shoulder and have been injured for two years now, so  I only have game once in a while.  Alas, you've not yet seen it.  But this will be an injury free year, once my frozen shoulder thaws out.  The 18" of fresh snow out my front door will thaw sooner    But a Bill V prescription and PT should cure me in a few months.

I played the 12th at 500 yards and not the new back tee where it is what, a 560 yard par 5?  With the flat fairway I like the hole as a long par 4 better.

I forgot you hit driver off the deck.  Both times you say?  Hmmm...
Next time you see the course, you'll notice a lot fewer offensive trees!

[Gene Greco]

I love it, too.

In high school we always played it from the back tee which at the time measured 480 yds. It was a 245-250 yd carry and we seemed to always be able to clear it with our persimmon drivers and balata balls. Also, the back side of the giant cross bunker was always shaved clean to a wider fairway so clearing it usually meant we had a 3 to a 5 iron in. That bunker is pretty hairy on the back side now with a more constricted fairway and along with the extra yardage one needs to juice it a bit more to get to the fairway.

I'm no longer the player I once was so I would have to go right as well and I'm sure hit no less than 3 wood.

If driver were needed, Kyle, don't you feel that the last generation of drivers (ie. 983K) and those marketed before were much easier off the deck than the balloon heads which are marketed today? I've snapped off two of these heads (G2) trying to do just that!  

[Kyle Harris]

Gene,

You caught me, this is really a subtle ploy to curb equipment on my end.  

I play a Cleveland 360 driver... not as big as the new 460, but I've found a gentle sweeping motion does just fine. You have to execute the shot EXPECTING it to slive (read not fade: slice) which brings another element into the equation, curving the ball.

Wayne,

I don't think I'd hit driver off the floor at 9 on Rolling Green if the Flynn waste-area were restored on the right side of the fairway, then it would be too risky.

Also, for the record, I played the 500 yard tee and hit 5 wood in... so   We need to take a trip up there and play Black and Red together as time allows for both of us.

[Kyle Harris]

Wayne,

It's now a 510 yard par 4. I like it as a par 4 better as well.

This idea comes as an admission to my own game. I've found that there are certain holes where an aggressive approach is favored over a more timid layup shot, and these happen to be on some of the older designs in the area.

[Gene Greco]

What par 4 had the highest scoring average in 2002?

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Gene,

It was #15, if memory serves me right.  And they didn't even use the back tee that is there.

[mike_malone]

 Kyle,

   I know several people who hit driver off the deck on #9 at Rolling Grren. I'm not one of them. But they tell me it is worth the risk to hit a shorter club into the green.

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