[mike_malone]

 Watching many of these single digit hdcpers at the  ATT makes me wonder if they have glamour handicaps. Many of the swings look like 18-20 hdcpers I know.

[Marty Bonnar]

Agreed!
I just saw a '2' and a '5' play like they might have had (at least) a 1 in front of those....

CONGU Rules!!!

FBD.

[Tom Huckaby]

Before we get too crazy ripping these fellows and their handicaps - and worse, taking it to imply some superiority for the CONGU system - keep in mind:

a) the handicaps are given by the event, relative to the rest of the field.  That is, because someone gets a 2 here does not mean he's a 1.5 index, or whatever would merit a 2 at the course in question - he's a 2 because he's one of the best in the field.  On top of that, remember the difference in how handicaps are calculated here and under CONGU - the former are always going to give a lower number - US fellows play UK guys with the same number straight up only if they want to donate money.  But more importantly,

b) let he who would not choke in that situation in front of that many people and the world-wide TV audience cast the first stone.

 

[mike_malone]

 Tom,

   They seem to be saying so and so is a 2 at Deepdale or a 10 at Quail Hollow. That would lead me to a different conclusion.  But you should know better. I don't think it is all the TV. Some of these shots are at the secondary courses with few people wathching live.

[Dan_Callahan]

It is interesting to note the balance of the three courses. Last time I looked, four players in the top ten were at Spyglass, three were at Pebble and three were at Poppy.

[Marty Bonnar]

I knew! that you would be the Rainbow Trout to my cunningly presented Silver Invicta!!!

(Sorry for the Fly-fishing analogy. but it seemed most pertinent...)

It just kinda bums me to see guys with swings soooooo bad called 5's and 7's. I just can't get used to that. 5's and 7's over here generally swing like Tiger. Okay, not quite, but they are GOOD players....

FBD.

[wsmorrison]

These guys are playing with pros, on courses set up tougher than they are used to on a daily basis and the possibility that they will be on TV adds to the tension.  This has to account for a good portion of the differential.  The tendency is not to have a vanity handicap for these things but to be a sandbagger.  What was the name of that guy who was really distorting his handicap for the tournament?  Somebody here was able to track him down and expose his indiscretion.

[Tom Huckaby]

Mayday - well, they do have to have valid indices, and such do get checked, particularly after horrid sandbagging that's occurred in recent years.

So I could be wrong - maybe they do use straight up indices.

But it is pretty informal... handicaps do get adjusted all the time... that's how this event has always gone on the amateur side.

In any case, yes, I'm sure plenty of bad shots get hit outside of TV range.  But their are galleries on each course.  I have to believe the choke factor is huge.

Hey, I know I'm a sadly legit 5.6 index these days... that means they'd give me 6 or 7... and I also know that if I were playing down there and any of you saw me, you'd want to put a 1 before my handicap also.

Thus I have empathy for those playing in the event.  I've watched them in person too many years.  Yes, many look like their handicaps are bogus to the max.  But I'm willing to believe that get them at home in a comfortable environment and their handicaps would be real.

TH

[mike_malone]

 Year after year I watch this with the same thought. Many of these bad shots are on the tee or the green. So that isn't the tough rough. It just seems many want to have that single digit hdcp. Bill Murray , on the other hand, seems to be right on the button.

[Tom Huckaby]

Bill Murray if anything is a bagger - or at least, he looks BETTER than his number.  But Mr. Huntley would know, having just played with him this week and doing so on an annual basis.  He always does impress me how well he plays, especially with everything else going on.

As for the rest, well... I'm sure there are plenty of vanity handicaps in the field.  I just do fall back on not wanting to cast the first stone.

TH

[Mike_Sweeney]

But Mr. Huntley would know, having just played with him this week and doing so on an annual basis.  

It appears that Mr Murray has forgotten his round with Bob, as his shirtails are currently flapping in the Pacific wind!!

[Tom Huckaby]

 
Hmmmm... I wonder what he wore at MPCC... and I'd pay good money for a tape of Bob's comments on such....

 

[Tom Huckaby]

mayday:  as a test, I checked out how they're listing a man I know who's playing down there - Dick Skavdahl - he's now President of the NCGA, a very nice man who got me into course rating.  In any case, he's a 7.4 index.  That gets him a 9 at Spyglass, from the middle tees which I assume he's playing.  They have him as an 8 for the event.  I kinda think that's how it goes a lot...

TH

[wsmorrison]

Murray has a nice looking swing, much better looking than his listed 14.  I was out on the course with him when he won closest to the pin on one of the par 3s at the Leatherstocking Course during the Hall of Fame induction weekend in Cooperstown.  He clowns around, sets up to the ball and hits good shot after good shot.

This is the only time I play in front of a crowd with a couple of thousand people around the course.  It is very nerve wracking!  Even practice rounds in front of a few hundred make me very nervous.  I make some of the crowd nervous too  

[mike_malone]

 Tom,

  Thanks for researching that.

[Kyle Harris]

The most good looking swing in the world still can't putt the ball.

[jeffwarne]

Bill Murray IS a bagger.
He'll nonchalant a few when they don't matter
The announcers say it like it's a compliment

[Tom Huckaby]

This is the only time I play in front of a crowd with a couple of thousand people around the course.  It is very nerve wracking!  Even practice rounds in front of a few hundred make me very nervous.  I make some of the crowd nervous too  

I've played in front of a crowd exactly ONCE in my life, and it was high school back when I was fairly decent at this game, and pretty battle-hardened.  I choked like a dog.  I can't imagine playing before AT&T galleries.  Thus my empathy.

And Mayday, no hassles man.  As one whose swing and demeanor looks like that of a 17 and whose game can usually live up to the 7 or hopefully lower, as useful as this perception is betting-wise, well... it does require an ego check.

Thus my empathy, again.

 

[Mike Benham]

They seem to be saying so and so is a 2 at Deepdale or a 10 at Quail Hollow. That would lead me to a different conclusion.  But you should know better.

You answered your own question but why would you believe anything that the talking mouths have to say about so-and-so's handicap?   There are PR people writing bio's that only slightly stretch the truth.  It's TV, it's show business, it's golf ...

[mike_malone]

 Mike,

   It may be a PR thing for some of these movie stars. Dennis Quaid a 2!! Not with that swing.

[wsmorrison]

Let's take a step back.  Who really gives a flying f***?

[mike_malone]

 Wayne,


   This may be the most important subject ever discussed on this board!

[wsmorrison]

It is one of your better ones, I'll give you that  

[Brian_Sleeman]

Bill Murray if anything is a bagger - or at least, he looks BETTER than his number.  But Mr. Huntley would know, having just played with him this week and doing so on an annual basis.  He always does impress me how well he plays, especially with everything else going on.

Agreed on that.  Bill Murray is one of the main reasons I watch this tournament, and is one of my dream pairings.  Larry David also fits that bill, although I imagine he'd be much more negative in a fun sort of way.

It was great to see Neil Young out there a few years ago, too.  He said some interesting things about the similarity of being in a rhythm on the golf course and being in a rhythm while performing on the stage.

Needless to say he didn't seem nearly in the right rhythm when playing the AT&T, and has always had a good rhythm when I've seen him on the stage!

[Doug Siebert]

If I played in front of those crowds and on top of it everyone was annoyed when I'm hitting because they came to see a Bill Murray or Cameron Diaz not a Douglas Siebert, then I think I might be happy to be playing like I had a '1' in front of my handicap instead of a '2'!

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