News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


TEPaul

Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2006, 12:23:03 PM »
Even if it's a bit OT it is indirectly related to this thread since excessive distance is the underlying issue----and so I'd just like to remark that the chairman of the "Equipment Standards" Committee of the USGA (the old B&I Committee), Jim Vernon, gave a very impressive committee report at the USGA annual meeting in Atlanta last Saturday, in my opinion.

He certainly did not spell out details of any new I&B rules and regulations in our future but it sure as hell sounded to me like they're coming. If and when they do it looks like they'll be in these two areas they're calling "moment of inertia" and "spin generation" (spin rate).

When they come the next big question is what will the manufacturers say and do about them?

If the manufacturers blanch, even in the slightest, my recommendation would be that every single golfer that can be mustered in the USA should jump all over the manufacturers and tell them that they both want and expect them to comply to the very letter with the new USGA/R&A I&B rules and regs!

Something is coming down the USGA/R&A I&B rules and regs pipeline, Boys----mark my words.

Interestingly, it appears a new term was rolled out in that excellent report of "Equipment Standards" Committee chairman, Jim Vernon.

In the future I think we'll be hearing a lot more of this term---"de-skilling".
« Last Edit: February 08, 2006, 12:27:47 PM by TEPaul »

JohnV

Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #51 on: February 08, 2006, 12:37:29 PM »
For those who would like to read it, here is Jim Vernon's report:

USGA Equipment Report

Last night on the Golf Channel, I think I heard that J.B. Holmes ball speed is 193 MPH with an incredibly low spin rate for that speed (1750 RPM?).  If Tom is right and spin rate is one thing that might get changed, then the ball will start going all over the lot for these guys and they might have to dial it back.

TEPaul

Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #52 on: February 08, 2006, 12:45:03 PM »
"If Tom is right and spin rate is one thing that might get changed, then the ball will start going all over the lot for these guys and they might have to dial it back."

John:

As you can see from the speech, spin rate is definitely one of the two factors. What I think they'd have to do is for the first time put a cap on or limit on the MINIMUM amount of spin rate (rpms) a ball can have. The tech guys imply what that would in effect do is not so much get balls going all over the lot side to side but it would keep the initial trajectory down more and that fact at the same ball speed or swing speed (particularly really high ball and swing speeds) would just not produce as much distance and carry distance.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2006, 12:50:37 PM by TEPaul »

DMoriarty

Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #53 on: February 08, 2006, 12:51:25 PM »
Pat

If a golfer can swing as hard as he can without fear of consequence then it is the fault of the designer and/or the set up of the course.  I watch pros often enough to know that on proper courses their sprayed drives are penalized.  Watch a tape of nearly any Open.

Sean,

This is a very narrow view of proper design and setup.  I just dont see 'penalizing sprayed shots' as the only goal of architecture.  Anyone can set up a course to penalize sprayed shots, but that doesnt make it good design or setup. What about variety, interest,  beauty, fun, etc?

Quote
Drives haven't suddenly gone from 150 to 315 overnight.  There has been steady progress with balls and sticks over 125 years. The advancements of today were made possible by the advancements of yesterday.  Courses have been lengthening since 1900ish to combat distance.  So the distance problem certainly isn't new.

This is the conventional wisdom, but unfortunately not true.  In the 70 years before 1993, average driving distance of top golfers increased a little over 30 yards, total.  In the 12 years since 1993, average driving distance of top players has increased close to the same (around 29 yards.)

Quote
I am guessing that the recent quantum leap in technology which has effectively skipped a generation or two of normal progression is what has people up in arms.  If progress had gone on at a steady pace and the distances achieved today weren't achieved for 20 years, would so many people be on the distance band wagon?

Your guess is a little short.  It would take close to 60 years of similar progression to get to the point we have come in just the past 12 years.  A six decade leap in a little over a decade.    

Quote
Either way all golfers have to answer the same question.  Do they care about the distance issue enough to not use equipment which affords "unbelievable distance"?  When enough people answer that question positively then there is a chance for effective change.  There is no point in hammering on about distance when you are stood in the proshop swinging the latest driver while the pro is ringing up a dozen mega fly balls on the register.

This argument rings hollow to me.  Why can't someone simultaneously play by the rules and advocate their change.  For example, I have heard American football players suggest that their game would be better and safer with less protective equipment, yet they'd be fools to compete without their protective gear.

So long as golf involves competition, even at the lowest level, golfers will want to at least neutralize the equipment advantage of their competitors.  This is entirely consistent with wanting the entire game to roll back a bit.  

An example.  I was playing a friendly match with my regular group this weekend, when because of high winds we decided to skip the back nine and start on one again.  I decided it might be fun to use my hickories and switched clubs for the second front nine, even though the match was continuing (and I had a slight lead.)  Not only did I get my hat handed to me, but the experience was much less enjoyable for everyone.   We were no longer playing the same game.  

Now next week I'll play with my regular clubs because I enjoy the competition.  But given my option, I'd much rather they switched to my equipment rather than me to theirs.  
« Last Edit: February 08, 2006, 12:54:07 PM by DMoriarty »

JohnV

Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2006, 12:57:59 PM »
Tom,

The odd thing is that if you look up the Pro V1s in the Conforming Ball list, they say it is a Medium spin ball off the driver and High off the irons.  The only balls that Titleist makes that are Low spin are the various DT So-Los, a few NXTs and some other lesser known balls.  Calloway makes some high-end balls listed as Low spin with the driver and most of Nikes are listed as Low.

john_stiles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2006, 01:05:06 PM »
I have seen minimum spin discussed on this site more than a few times. :)

That would be one way to work at the distance issue.  Much of the golf ball 'boutique' construction has been aimed at this very goal, reducing or optimizing spin rates for some time now.

The discussion is welcome news indeed.  Maybe our  continued check writing is paying off.

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2006, 01:13:16 PM »
If (and I recognize that it is still a LARGE if!) USGA can find a way through spin rates and MOI to dial back the pros in more or less the same proportion that the pros have gained distance, with no bifurcation and without extreme penalties to rank and file golfers, then the wait will have been well spent, and apologies will be in order.  I hope that is the case.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

john_stiles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #57 on: February 08, 2006, 01:17:08 PM »
I would prefer the term 'pro-skilling' as in promoting all skills.

Seems like USGA discussion is moving forward albeit slowly.

USGA is still woefully behind the manufacturers as they cannot manufacture many clubheads or balls.

But, there is hope and maybe even hope for cooperation by manufacturers.

Andy Hughes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #58 on: February 08, 2006, 01:24:06 PM »
Quote
This is the conventional wisdom, but unfortunately not true.  In the 70 years before 1993, average driving distance of top golfers increased a little over 30 yards, total.  In the 12 years since 1993, average driving distance of top players has increased close to the same (around 29 yards.)
Odd grouping of years you have made Dave.  Is there a reason you chose 1923 as your starting point, when Sean pointedly said 125 years? Does it have anything to do with availability of stats (or lack of availability) before that time?
Also, who are the 'top golfers'? US pro tour? European pro tour? Leading ams?  What are the distances you are you referring to, such as what the leading players hit it in 1923 and 1993 and today.

Quote
This argument rings hollow to me.  Why can't someone simultaneously play by the rules and advocate their change.  For example, I have heard American football players suggest that their game would be better and safer with less protective equipment, yet they'd be fools to compete without their protective gear.
Yet it makes sense to me.  How serious can most people really be about the game being ruined or compromised by too much distance if they themselves insist on using the equipment they accuse of ruining the game?  If the game is more fun or challenging or interesting without the newest equipment, then it stands to reason that those who feel that way would play without such equipment.  Otherwise, it is only fair to conclude that the chance to win a $2 nassau means more than the fun or challenge or interest, is it not?
If the game of golf is more interesting/challenging/fun with the older equipment, then why is it hard for you to convince the people you play with to use older drivers?

"Perhaps I'm incorrect..."--P. Mucci 6/7/2007

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #59 on: February 08, 2006, 02:11:54 PM »
Pat

If a golfer can swing as hard as he can without fear of consequence then it is the fault of the designer and/or the set up of the course.  I watch pros often enough to know that on proper courses their sprayed drives are penalized.  Watch a tape of nearly any Open.

Sean,

This is a very narrow view of proper design and setup.  I just dont see 'penalizing sprayed shots' as the only goal of architecture.  Anyone can set up a course to penalize sprayed shots, but that doesnt make it good design or setup. What about variety, interest,  beauty, fun, etc?
Quote


Dave

Just checking that we are still talking about the top players. At their level I don't give a hang if they are happy or not with the setup or the architecture.  The two biggest complaints on here about setups has been Carnoustie in '99 and Shinny a few years later.  I thought Carnoustie was the best Open I have seen since The Duel in the Sun.  Obviously I enjoyed the two Opens for very different reasons.  One because of the magnificent scoring due in large part to the weather and the other because of the inability of pros to play the course as they find it.  Great stuff either way.  Shinny was great viewing again because pros wouldn't play the course (or the hole) as they found it.  

Dave, I am not sure where you are coming from.  For the rest of us poor slashers, I have rarely seen more variety and beauty or had more fun and interesting time on a golf course as I have at Open venues.  

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

TEPaul

Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2006, 03:39:15 PM »
David Moriarty:

If the USGA/R&A comes in with some new I&B rules and regulations soon which judging by the report USGA "Equipment Standards" Committee chairman Jim Vernon just gave at the USGA annual meeting seems fairly likely, and for whatever reason some of the major ball and club manufacturers don't choose to conform this time and a significant slice of the golf public decided to buy that non-conforming equipment anyway, then what would you suggest be done?

There is a point to this question and that point is to try to show again what happened with balls and equipment in the last decade or so and why the regulatory bodies felt it necessary to proceed as they have to do something about it effectively without risking essentially upsetting the whole apple cart in the process.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2006, 03:44:41 PM by TEPaul »

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2006, 06:44:43 PM »

Quote
Let's see if I understand this.
You are a vastly inferior talent when compared to Hogan, Snead, Sarazen and others, yet you routinely outdrive them by a good margin.
Pat, we've never played together--how can you state that I am vastly inferior?  That would be like discussing a course you had never played ;)

When I look at all of the record books,  I don't see your name.

On the other hand, I see Hogan's name quite frequently.
[/color]

Quote
But, you don't think technology has changed the play of golf classic golf courses, the same ones they played ?
I never said that. I said for me . Far different things.
Example--I played Inwood once, and on 18 I had a shorter club into the green than Jones' famous approach.  Does that mean the course was too short to challenge me, or for me to enjoy? No, for me, the course was both challenging and fun, even though equipment has made the course play shorter for me than it did many years ago for a far better player like Jones.

How do you think Inwood would fare if a U.S. Open was held there this June ?
[/color]

Quote
Do either of you play matches for MONEY ?
Do either of you compete in tournaments ?
When you play for money or in tournaments do you use old clubs and balls ?
If so, are you available for a game every day this summer ?
And, while finding old clubs is relatively easy, where do you find old balls, except on TEPaul ?

Then you need to make a choice Pat: play the game for fun, for the joy that you eloquently wrote about in your post several weeks ago, for the thrill of interfacing with the architecture. Or play it so you can win a $2 nassau from your buds.

The two SHOULDN'T BE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

But, high tech has made them so.

Don't also forget to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's ....
[/color]

Or best yet, play with buds who all agree to play with a 10 year old driver and you can have the best of al worlds.

Hell, I play with a ten year old driver, that's no big deal
Try getting four guys to play with persimmon or laminate from 40 years ago.
[/color]

Quote
t's not an issue of fun, the issue is the failure of the architectural features to interface with the golfer's game because technology has rendered the features and their purpose, obsolete.

The features are obsolete if you hit the ball too far seems to be your contention. If that is the case, it should be very, very easy for you to remedy that (i.e. a simple change to the equipment you put in your bag will solve it).

So I should compete with equipment circa 1966 while others compete with equipment circa 2006.

Surely you jest.
[/color]

If the Bottle Hole is no longer as thrilling/fun/interesting, then clearly you should not be hitting your latest and greatest Callaway.  Bring a 10 year old driver with you, or use your 3 wood, and you can interface to your heart's content.

Sure, I'll be sure to place myself at a distinct disadvantage when I play in the National Singles tournament.  That makes a lot of sense.  And, again, I play with a ten year old driver.
[/color]

Quote
Except when Susan Daly, age 9 is the one carrying Hell Bunker into the breeze, then you'll care, but, it will be too late.

Pat, why exactly do I care what Susan does?  My only concerns are my game, not Miss Daly's.  As long as the features on the course are still applicable to me, then I am content.  If the features are not applicable to me any longer, then I have two choices: accept it and carry on, or do something to bring the features back to relevance.  

Because, when she beats you like a drum, you'll be embarrassed, and don't tell me otherwise.
[/color]
« Last Edit: February 08, 2006, 06:45:18 PM by Patrick_Mucci »

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2006, 06:49:19 PM »
"TEPaul,
Surely, you've heard of the "trickle down" effect."  :)

Patrick:

Yes, I have heard of the trickle down effect, some people use it in an economic context, but is there a point somewhere in that remark of yours?  ;)  


TEPaul,

Noone is watching me and my friends play golf on the weekends.

Millions of people are watching the PGA Tour Pros play.

Millions are watching what golf courses have done to themselves, including club Presidents, Board Members, Green Chairman and Green Committeemen, and those are the people who are influenced to the degree that they seek to alter their home courses to reflect what they've seen on TV.

Those influences, gleened from watching the PGA Tour Pros and the courses they play, manifest themselves in the disfigurement of their home courses.

DMoriarty

Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #63 on: February 08, 2006, 08:43:56 PM »
Odd grouping of years you have made Dave.  Is there a reason you chose 1923 as your starting point, when Sean pointedly said 125 years? Does it have anything to do with availability of stats (or lack of availability) before that time?

I got the numbers from an old magazine article where, if I recall correctly, they were recording actual driving distances of a handful of top players.   The 1923 date is mistaken-- it should be 1918.  So in the 75 years after 1918, distance increased about 32 yards.   I used 1918 because it seemed to me to be one of the only sources for driving distance and one that struck me as probably reliable.  

I used 1993 because this seems to be approximately where things really took off.

However you look at it, the jump in the past decade or so has been absolutely extraordinary and unprecedented-- at least since 1918.  
Quote
Also, who are the 'top golfers'? US pro tour? European pro tour? Leading ams?  What are the distances you are you referring to, such as what the leading players hit it in 1923 and 1993 and today.

I used the PGA Tour average driving distances (which I believe is the top 150 players or so.)  To be consistent with the previous sample, I should probably have focused only on the best  of the best.   My guess is that doing so would boost the most recent numbers up near or above the 300 yd mark and further increase the jump we've seen in the last dozen years.  
 
Quote
How serious can most people really be about the game being ruined or compromised by too much distance if they themselves insist on using the equipment they accuse of ruining the game?  If the game is more fun or challenging or interesting without the newest equipment, then it stands to reason that those who feel that way would play without such equipment.  Otherwise, it is only fair to conclude that the chance to win a $2 nassau means more than the fun or challenge or interest, is it not?

This is not a fair conclusion at all.  

You are forgetting one important factor and the focus of Patrick's post and this website-- the architecture.  The new equipment is not only causing ruinious changes to our great courses, but is also greatly expanding the gap between long hitters and short hitters.   Whatever equipment I choose to play with has absolutely nothing to do with this problem, and this is the only problem with which I am concerned.      

One need not martyr oneself every Sunday in order to recognize this problem and advocate change.  
__________________________

TEPaul said:
Quote
If the USGA/R&A comes in with some new I&B rules and regulations soon which judging by the report USGA "Equipment Standards" Committee chairman Jim Vernon just gave at the USGA annual meeting seems fairly likely, and for whatever reason some of the major ball and club manufacturers don't choose to conform this time and a significant slice of the golf public decided to buy that non-conforming equipment anyway, then what would you suggest be done?

Tom,

First, I'd be thrilled if they did something that made a significant difference.  I just hope that waiting so long to act hasn't hindered their ability to do so effectively.  

Your question assumes that the bulk of the golfing public will be hurt by the changes, and i dont think this is necessarily the case.   It is possible for the USGA to bring balance back into the game by pushing hard on the biggest and best, and less so on the little guy.  Look at it this way . . . ball technology has disproportionately helped those with extremely high swing speeds;  if new rules disproportionately limited these same individuals the game could be brought back into balance without killing the little guy.   This approach also gives the manufacturers to focus their technology on the players who need it most.  

But assume the USGA impliments rules where everyone's game takes a hit and everyone could be doing better with nonconforming stuff.   I still think most avidavid golfers would still play by the rules.  Nonetheless, here are a few suggestions of how to help them along . . .
--Make sure Augusta and the PGATour are on board . . . that way the best in the world will still play conforming equipment, equipment manufacturers will likely still manufacture it, and golfers will still want to play what the Tour guys play.
-- Dont allow the use of non-conforming equipment in any tournament at any level of golf.   National, regional, and local governing bodies should refuse to sanction any sort of event wher the rules are not followed.  
-- Refuse to issue handicaps to those who wont follow the rules.
-- Better yet, forbid the use of non-conforming equipment at your clubs.  If they can do it for the cell phone or shorts, then why not cheaters clubs.  
-- Refuse to play matches with those who use 'cheater' equipment.  Better yet, refuse to play with those using 'cheater' equipment.  
-- Boycott companies that sell 'cheater' stuff.

As for those who still want to play the cheater stuff, just ignore them.  Some people refuse to play by the USGA rules now, so why should new equipment rules be any different?  

Quote
There is a point to this question and that point is to try to show again what happened with balls and equipment in the last decade or so and why the regulatory bodies felt it necessary to proceed as they have to do something about it effectively without risking essentially upsetting the whole apple cart in the process.

On this point we will have to disagree. Think of all of the advancements that have been made while the USGA has been trying to figure out what to do.  As they let each new advancement go to the public their job became harder and harder.  I for one would have liked to have seen them take a stand long ago.  After all, it isnt as if noone saw this coming.  

TEPaul

Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #64 on: February 08, 2006, 10:38:26 PM »
"Your question assumes that the bulk of the golfing public will be hurt by the changes, and i dont think this is necessarily the case."

David:

So as to get squarely on the same page here so we can have an accurate and intelliegent discussion, let me first say as many times as I've looked at that question of mine, I just can't see any conceivable way I said or impled the bulk of the golfing public will be hurt by any changes I may have implied may be coming down the I&B rules and regulations pipeline. So please explain why you said that.

TEPaul

Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #65 on: February 08, 2006, 10:48:49 PM »
"On this point we will have to disagree. Think of all of the advancements that have been made while the USGA has been trying to figure out what to do.  As they let each new advancement go to the public their job became harder and harder.  I for one would have liked to have seen them take a stand long ago.  After all, it isnt as if noone saw this coming."

David:

As I'm sure you can imagine, I think a statement like this one of yours is quite naive---actually more than quite naive--it's remarkably naive---and that's not a good thing from the perspective of a lawyer which you are. Would you like me to explain why I say that?  

DMoriarty

Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #66 on: February 08, 2006, 10:57:29 PM »
"Your question assumes that the bulk of the golfing public will be hurt by the changes, and i dont think this is necessarily the case."

David:

So as to get squarely on the same page here so we can have an accurate and intelliegent discussion, let me first say as many times as I've looked at that question of mine, I just can't see any conceivable way I said or impled the bulk of the golfing public will be hurt by any changes I may have implied may be coming down the I&B rules and regulations pipeline. So please explain why you said that.

You didn't say it.  I thought you assumed it, but apparently I was mistaken.  You described a scenario where "a significant slice of the golf public decided to buy that non-conforming equipment."   The only scenario where I imagine this could happen would be if the USGA's new rules made the game more difficult for the bulk of the golfing public.  

If we assume the new rules will not hurt the bulk of the golfing public, then I dont think the equipment manufacturers will have much luck convincing the bulk of golfers to forget about the rules and play nonconforming equipment.    

In other words, if the USGA is smart about their rule changes then I dont think many golfers will switch to cheater equipment.  
. . .
If I were the USGA I would try to reign in the big guys while still allowing some room for new technology to help the little guys.  

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #67 on: February 08, 2006, 10:58:10 PM »
So many words spent...

Modern technology makes the game enjoyable. Golf is fun. Hitting it further is fun.

I am not a member of the PGA tour. If THEY want to pull back on the equipment, let them do it.

If the USGA feels they are speaking for ALL golfers, or even the majority of golfers,as they wade through this issue ,they are sadly mistaken.

Leave the equipment alone...Let it be...

No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

DMoriarty

Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #68 on: February 08, 2006, 11:10:58 PM »
"On this point we will have to disagree. Think of all of the advancements that have been made while the USGA has been trying to figure out what to do.  As they let each new advancement go to the public their job became harder and harder.  I for one would have liked to have seen them take a stand long ago.  After all, it isnt as if noone saw this coming."

David:

As I'm sure you can imagine, I think a statement like this one of yours is quite naive---actually more than quite naive--it's remarkably naive---and that's not a good thing from the perspective of a lawyer which you are. Would you like me to explain why I say that?  


As I have explained many times I am not currently practicing law and glad for it, so perhaps this as much as anything explains my apparent credulity.  

I will say that IMLNLNO (In My Layman, Non-Lawyerly, Naive Opinion), the threat of crippling lawsuits against the USGA has been greatly overblown over the past decade.  If anything, the USGA might have recently created a potential liability problem for themselves when they announced that there will be no rollbacks and that what is legal will stay legal.  But again, that is just my IMLNLNO.

TEPaul

Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #69 on: February 08, 2006, 11:38:45 PM »
"As I have explained many times I am not currently practicing law and glad for it, so perhaps this as much as anything explains my apparent credulity.  

I will say that IMLNLNO (In My Layman, Non-Lawyerly, Naive Opinion), the threat of crippling lawsuits against the USGA has been greatly overblown over the past decade.  If anything, the USGA might have recently created a potential liability problem for themselves when they announced that there will be no rollbacks and that what is legal will stay legal.  But again, that is just my IMLNLNO."

David:

All of that some may find personally interesting but in the broad scheme of this general golf distance issue it's not relevent. Would you like to recouch it into something that is relevent to the USGA and the manufacturers and the rest of us with this distance issue?

DMoriarty

Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #70 on: February 09, 2006, 12:05:00 AM »
All of that some may find personally interesting but in the broad scheme of this general golf distance issue it's not relevent. Would you like to recouch it into something that is relevent to the USGA and the manufacturers and the rest of us with this distance issue?

Again I respectfully disagree.  The threat of litigation as a result of rule changes is very relevant to any discussion of potential changes, as is behavior by the USGA which might have made their subsequent efforts to make changes more difficult.

My status as an actively practicing or inactive lawyer is entirely irrelevant, but when I am referred to as a lawyer I feel compelled to clarify for many reasons.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2006, 11:24:55 AM by DMoriarty »

DMoriarty

Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #71 on: February 09, 2006, 12:12:34 AM »
So many words spent...

Modern technology makes the game enjoyable. Golf is fun. Hitting it further is fun.

I am not a member of the PGA tour. If THEY want to pull back on the equipment, let them do it.

If the USGA feels they are speaking for ALL golfers, or even the majority of golfers,as they wade through this issue ,they are sadly mistaken.

Yes golf is fun and it is fun to hit it hard, but this is about balance in the game and the survival of our great courses.  

Fix the equipment and golf will still be fun and it will still be fun to hit the ball far.   Plus our great courses will survive, and a long hitter and a short hitter will again be challenged by the same course.

Quote
Leave the equipment alone...Let it be...

If only the USGA had said this to the manufacturers a while back we would not have to have this discussion.  

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #72 on: February 09, 2006, 01:25:28 AM »
Craig,

Since you seem to think that hitting it further and straighter is fun, can I ask where you would draw the line as being too much?  What if technology could help you play better and shoot 66, and it'd be fine if Tiger was shooting 55 with the same stuff?  Would a 66 really be any better than a 77 is today if Tiger is shooting 55?  It might be fun for a bit, but after a while you'd realize that 66 really isn't that good and you'd need another technology "fix" to keep enjoying yourself.

Have you ever seen that Twilight Zone episode where a gambler dies and goes to heaven?  He's in a casino where he keeps winning at everything he tries, and at first he really enjoys it but after a while it drives him so crazy to win every time that he demands to be taken to hell.  Whereupon he finds out he's been in hell all along.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Brent Hutto

Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #73 on: February 09, 2006, 07:04:49 AM »
If there were some magic technology that would let me go around my home course in 66 strokes, propelling the ball by swinging a golf club, playing it down and putting it out...

I think that would be really fun. It wouldn't bother me if Tiger could therefore play Augusta National in 50 strokes or if winning our club championship then required shooting in the 40's. Of course it would be fun to hit the ball that far and that accurately.

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ruination ?
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2006, 10:19:08 AM »
Doug, first of all I would STILL have to be able to EXECUTE. You do not shot 66 solely because of equipment.

The game still requires the ability to putt and chip. The game still requires a consistant, solid swing.

I get the impression that 99% of the "anti-new technology" people think everyone hits the ball 350 yards and straight as an arrow when they pick up a Nike golf ball and the SQ driver.

Do you seriously think that you and I (and I have no idea how good a golfer you are) could play Pine Valley, Merion, AGNC, or any other classic course and render it obsolete? I doubt it.
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back