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mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
 Wayne,

   Obviously rough, trees, and bunkers are different because you can recover from them. This is something that bothered me from before I ever heard of Flynn.

   Which 13?
AKA Mayday

Patrick_Mucci


Tom ,

I never suggested that the holes at Pebble were of this type. Pat Mucci brought them up.

That's because you challenged me to produce holes that had water running all along one flank.

# 5 at Merion and #'s 8, 9 and 10 at Pebble fit the task.
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mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
 Pat,

   I am sorry for the confusion. I led you to believe I was speaking of holes like #5 at Merion when I wasn't.

  I was speaking of the more mundane type of resort lake that borders the line of play with no carry option.



  I'm so upset that Greenspan is retiring that I can't think straight.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2006, 02:52:30 PM by mayday_malone »
AKA Mayday

wsmorrison

"I'm so upset that Greenspan is retiring that I can't think straight."

Speaking of overrated.  I'm glad to see the old fart go.  His last few years were atrocious, at least that's how I see it from my narrow mind.

Patrick_Mucci


IF the wind is reasonable one can choose to aim at sections of the green.

As a 13 handicap, could you tell me WHAT sections of the green you aim at ?

I would think that hitting the green would be the SOLE object of a 13 handicap.
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One can choose a club to just carry or be bolder to a back pin with an additional club. The art of choosing to hit a full shot or a half shot  also seems strategic to me.

And as a 13 handicap, you have that ability ?

You can hit full, 3/4 and 1/2 shots  ?
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Jordan Wall


IF the wind is reasonable one can choose to aim at sections of the green.

As a 13 handicap, could you tell me WHAT sections of the green you aim at ?

I would think that hitting the green would be the SOLE object of a 13 handicap.
[/color]

One can choose a club to just carry or be bolder to a back pin with an additional club. The art of choosing to hit a full shot or a half shot  also seems strategic to me.

And as a 13 handicap, you have that ability ?

You can hit full, 3/4 and 1/2 shots  ?
[/color]

Pat, I think Tom Lehman said it best.  Just aim for the center of the green.  Then if the pins at the center of the green, its easy to go straight at it.  If its not and your a little off-line, you could still be by a pin.  And if you are neither, then just take two putts and make a par.
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« Last Edit: January 31, 2006, 09:58:10 PM by Jordan Wall »

Glenn Spencer

That is great stategy from Mr. Lehman, but some of us can't putt, 2putts is not always a lock.

Jordan Wall

That is great stategy from Mr. Lehman, but some of us can't putt, 2putts is not always a lock.

More of a lock then getting up and down from deep rough or from a bunker, thats for dang sure.[/color]

 ;) ;)
« Last Edit: January 31, 2006, 09:59:13 PM by Jordan Wall »

wsmorrison

 "Wayne,

  Obviously rough, trees, and bunkers are different because you can recover from them. This is something that bothered me from before I ever heard of Flynn."

I had a feeling you were talking about recovery.  Why didn't you just say so?  Recovery is an important part of design but it isn't expected to be everywhere.  Why not add some variety and offer challenges, sometimes with shot tests, that require a do or die?  Under these circumstances the bold and confident player has an edge over the less capable (physically or mentally) player.  Golf should be a complete test of a player's ability under a variety of conditions.  I'd be less than satisfied if there wasn't some stern examination of my game that didn't have grave (a watery one or otherwise) consequences.  I really don't see why you see the presence of a feature such as this as being the sign of an amateur architect.  Your thought process is so narrow in scope that it reminds me of some of the anti-tree extremists.  There are wonderful holes with features that don't have recovery abilities.  Pat mentioned some but there are many more.  Even some by an architect that wrote against the feature.  Again, things weren't so all or nothing and I don't see why our views should be.

By the way, I forgot to say the 13th at Huntingdon Valley.  There are other examples.  The 3rd at Kittansett is one that is a water hazard fronting the green at high tide and a sandy waste at other times.  What a great feature.  It is two hazards in one, just not at the same time.  BRILLIANT!

  Which 13?