Best University Golf Course

[herrstein]

Yale. I haven't played many others, but just can't imagine many better. It's just awesome.

[Rob Bice]

Scott Wood,
Here's a photo (borrowed from Ran's review) of the 12th at Taconic.

As it stands now, and as Ran mentions in his review, you have to flirt with the ravine on the left to have the best approach to the green. Anything on the right side of the fairway is either blocked out or a much more difficult shot to a green that's not easy to putt if you don't get your ball in the right place. I think you'll see more drivers being pulled for the tee shot if a new tee is added on this side, or even further to the left of the tee shown in the photo, but I also wonder if it won't diminish the effect that the ravine has from the existing tee.

Taconic recently went through a renovation and they added a tee farther down, essentially to the left and back from your picture.  The new tees adds length and makes you carry the ravine.  They also added a bunker on the right side of the fairway.  The added length makes a driver almost required if you want a 8-9-W into the green and the bunker on the right forces more precision.  Although I am not a fan of some of the other aspects of the renovation, the 12th hole was always my favorite and the changes made it even better.

[Jason McNamara]

I am an ASU alum.  Don't be jeleous.  Karsten is a Doak 0.  Tucson has 40 courses that are better.

Did he really rate it as a 0?

                "...overall the course is a horrific waste of money and effort."

[A.G._Crockett]

Well, certainly its not the best in the land, but the best college course I've played is the NCSU course. Its better than Finley, better than Duke, worlds better than Methodist, and better from the looks than either of the Campbel U. courses at Keith Hills. Those are the only courses in NC that are university owned, so far as I remember.

I'm going to take this one step farther.  If Duke had been designed by Joe Blow instead of RTJ with a Rees redesign, and if UNC Finley had been designed by John Doe instead of Tom Fazio, neither one of them would be considered to be anything at all special.   They just aren't especially good, IMO.  The new NCSU course isn't just better, it is a LOT better!

Keep in mind that I am both a UNC and Duke grad, though I try not to talk about the Duke thing too much...

AG

I can't understand what people see in the Duke course.  It isn't at all bad, but I would in no way recommend it.  Its very, very average.

Ciao   

Sean,
You should have seen it before Rees Jones fixed his father's mess.  But even now there is nothing that stirs the heart at Duke.

[John Moore II]

Well, certainly its not the best in the land, but the best college course I've played is the NCSU course. Its better than Finley, better than Duke, worlds better than Methodist, and better from the looks than either of the Campbel U. courses at Keith Hills. Those are the only courses in NC that are university owned, so far as I remember.

I'm going to take this one step farther.  If Duke had been designed by Joe Blow instead of RTJ with a Rees redesign, and if UNC Finley had been designed by John Doe instead of Tom Fazio, neither one of them would be considered to be anything at all special.   They just aren't especially good, IMO.  The new NCSU course isn't just better, it is a LOT better!

Keep in mind that I am both a UNC and Duke grad, though I try not to talk about the Duke thing too much...

I actually thought the course at Duke was fairly good. Finley had no character at all, but I really felt like Duke was a cool place to play. Very good set of par 5's. And the only holes I thought were duds are the two down at the base of the range, the short par 3 over water and the doofy par 4 with the pond right (holes 12 and 13 I think) But other than those two, and #16, I didn't think it was bad. Its in my top 25 courses played, for whatever thats worth...

[John Moore II]

- and ASU's Karsten Course, which is quite good much as it pains me to admit it. As an avowed Wildcat I don't like to say anything positive about ASU, but I am quite jealous that ASU features a home course while UA does not.

I am an ASU alum.  Don't be jeleous.  Karsten is a Doak 0.  Tucson has 40 courses that are better.

Did he really rate it as a 0? I mean, it could be better, but it's not that bad.

I think the Zero rating is unique. The One seems to be really terrible courses, but the Zero seems like its reserved for massively manufactured courses that turn out to be huge, HUGE letdowns. I asked Tom about Kiln Creek in VA, another Zero, and he said that they had moved several million yards of dirt to get the contours, its obviously highly manufactured, had a bloated budget and turned out to be somewhat of dud. It doesn't seem like the Zero rating is meant for courses that wasted huge chunks of money and turned out looking like a Las Vegas stripper; not bad looking, but with a lot more of those decent looks created by man and not nature.

[Tim Martin]

Yale. I haven't played many others, but just can't imagine many better. It's just awesome.

Yale must be the leader of the pack regarding college layouts. Taconic and the Orchards are also great layouts but not in a category with Yale. As said already on this thread if you got to rotate only these three for the rest of your golfing life you would be way ahead of most.

[A.G._Crockett]

Well, certainly its not the best in the land, but the best college course I've played is the NCSU course. Its better than Finley, better than Duke, worlds better than Methodist, and better from the looks than either of the Campbel U. courses at Keith Hills. Those are the only courses in NC that are university owned, so far as I remember.

I'm going to take this one step farther.  If Duke had been designed by Joe Blow instead of RTJ with a Rees redesign, and if UNC Finley had been designed by John Doe instead of Tom Fazio, neither one of them would be considered to be anything at all special.   They just aren't especially good, IMO.  The new NCSU course isn't just better, it is a LOT better!

Keep in mind that I am both a UNC and Duke grad, though I try not to talk about the Duke thing too much...

I actually thought the course at Duke was fairly good. Finley had no character at all, but I really felt like Duke was a cool place to play. Very good set of par 5's. And the only holes I thought were duds are the two down at the base of the range, the short par 3 over water and the doofy par 4 with the pond right (holes 12 and 13 I think) But other than those two, and #16, I didn't think it was bad. Its in my top 25 courses played, for whatever thats worth...

John,
Honestly, I rate Duke and Finley as a dead heat.  To whatever extent Duke is better, it is more than cancelled out by the fact that it is, well, Duke. 
But in a hole by hole match play for quality, there isn't much to differentiate one from another.  Several good holes at each, many mediocre and easily forgotten holes at each, and some rather weak holes at each.
I'll put it this way; when I visit Durham three or four times a year, including last week, neither place is really on my mind when I decide where to play.  They just aren't very exciting.

[Matthew Petersen]

- and ASU's Karsten Course, which is quite good much as it pains me to admit it. As an avowed Wildcat I don't like to say anything positive about ASU, but I am quite jealous that ASU features a home course while UA does not.

I am an ASU alum.  Don't be jeleous.  Karsten is a Doak 0.  Tucson has 40 courses that are better.

Did he really rate it as a 0? I mean, it could be better, but it's not that bad.

I think the Zero rating is unique. The One seems to be really terrible courses, but the Zero seems like its reserved for massively manufactured courses that turn out to be huge, HUGE letdowns. I asked Tom about Kiln Creek in VA, another Zero, and he said that they had moved several million yards of dirt to get the contours, its obviously highly manufactured, had a bloated budget and turned out to be somewhat of dud. It doesn't seem like the Zero rating is meant for courses that wasted huge chunks of money and turned out looking like a Las Vegas stripper; not bad looking, but with a lot more of those decent looks created by man and not nature.

That is a fair representation of ASU. It's kind of the epitome of Pete Dye's "manufactured" courses. I don't see it as worthless, but it does seem like a vestige of the not-so-wonderful past.

[John Moore II]

- and ASU's Karsten Course, which is quite good much as it pains me to admit it. As an avowed Wildcat I don't like to say anything positive about ASU, but I am quite jealous that ASU features a home course while UA does not.

I am an ASU alum.  Don't be jeleous.  Karsten is a Doak 0.  Tucson has 40 courses that are better.

Did he really rate it as a 0? I mean, it could be better, but it's not that bad.

I think the Zero rating is unique. The One seems to be really terrible courses, but the Zero seems like its reserved for massively manufactured courses that turn out to be huge, HUGE letdowns. I asked Tom about Kiln Creek in VA, another Zero, and he said that they had moved several million yards of dirt to get the contours, its obviously highly manufactured, had a bloated budget and turned out to be somewhat of dud. It doesn't seem like the Zero rating is meant for courses that wasted huge chunks of money and turned out looking like a Las Vegas stripper; not bad looking, but with a lot more of those decent looks created by man and not nature.

That is a fair representation of ASU. It's kind of the epitome of Pete Dye's "manufactured" courses. I don't see it as worthless, but it does seem like a vestige of the not-so-wonderful past.

Yeah, this little line from the ASU Karsten website does enough for me: Scottish links design with rolling hills and railroad ties. Not sure about the rest of you, but I don't recall seeing neither rolling hills nor railroad ties on any Scottish links courses. Well, maybe you can see some railroad ties on whatever championship course that has the railway running beside the course...

[Chip Gaskins]

Well, certainly its not the best in the land, but the best college course I've played is the NCSU course. Its better than Finley, better than Duke, worlds better than Methodist, and better from the looks than either of the Campbel U. courses at Keith Hills. Those are the only courses in NC that are university owned, so far as I remember.

I'm going to take this one step farther.  If Duke had been designed by Joe Blow instead of RTJ with a Rees redesign, and if UNC Finley had been designed by John Doe instead of Tom Fazio, neither one of them would be considered to be anything at all special.   They just aren't especially good, IMO.  The new NCSU course isn't just better, it is a LOT better!

Keep in mind that I am both a UNC and Duke grad, though I try not to talk about the Duke thing too much...

I actually thought the course at Duke was fairly good. Finley had no character at all, but I really felt like Duke was a cool place to play. Very good set of par 5's. And the only holes I thought were duds are the two down at the base of the range, the short par 3 over water and the doofy par 4 with the pond right (holes 12 and 13 I think) But other than those two, and #16, I didn't think it was bad. Its in my top 25 courses played, for whatever thats worth...

I'll put it this way; when I visit Durham three or four times a year, including last week, neither place is really on my mind when I decide where to play.  They just aren't very exciting.

A.G.

I totally agree.  Dook sucks because, well its Dook.

Serious question...where do you consider playing while you are there.  I always struggle with that.  Every play Old Chatam?

Chip

[John Moore II]

For what its worth, I really enjoyed Duke. I most likely put it in my top 25 courses played on another thread; if I didn't, I meant to. I really liked that course. I especially liked the par 5's, and two of the par 3's were top of the line as well, I thought. Now, I wouldn't pay the $80 or whatever they charge, and perhaps the fact that I played as a guest of the staff altered my view. I guess the rate you pay can make a difference in what you think of a course.

But you are correct, I don't think about playing Dook when I go back to the area. I would play NCSU, The Neuse, and a couple of others on the public side before I played Duke.

[A.G._Crockett]

Well, certainly its not the best in the land, but the best college course I've played is the NCSU course. Its better than Finley, better than Duke, worlds better than Methodist, and better from the looks than either of the Campbel U. courses at Keith Hills. Those are the only courses in NC that are university owned, so far as I remember.

I'm going to take this one step farther.  If Duke had been designed by Joe Blow instead of RTJ with a Rees redesign, and if UNC Finley had been designed by John Doe instead of Tom Fazio, neither one of them would be considered to be anything at all special.   They just aren't especially good, IMO.  The new NCSU course isn't just better, it is a LOT better!

Keep in mind that I am both a UNC and Duke grad, though I try not to talk about the Duke thing too much...

I actually thought the course at Duke was fairly good. Finley had no character at all, but I really felt like Duke was a cool place to play. Very good set of par 5's. And the only holes I thought were duds are the two down at the base of the range, the short par 3 over water and the doofy par 4 with the pond right (holes 12 and 13 I think) But other than those two, and #16, I didn't think it was bad. Its in my top 25 courses played, for whatever thats worth...

I'll put it this way; when I visit Durham three or four times a year, including last week, neither place is really on my mind when I decide where to play.  They just aren't very exciting.

A.G.

I totally agree.  Dook sucks because, well its Dook.

Serious question...where do you consider playing while you are there.  I always struggle with that.  Every play Old Chatam?

Chip

I haven't played Old Chatham; if I know any members I'm not aware of it.

Probably my favorite is Hope Valley in Durham, where my best friend from HS is a member.  Ross original routing, recently restored by Brian Silva, and just a great golf course.

Next time you are in the area, ride out 15-501 toward Pittsboro and try Chapel Ridge.  I think it's pretty good; it has Fred Couples' name on it, but it was done by Robert Moore, whose work I really like.   A short distance away is the Preserve at Jordan Lake that Paul Cowley designed for the Love Group, also worth a look.  The Falls on the east side of Durhame is an affordable, under-the-radar course that is worth a look, too.

But my favorite is Hillandale.  It is the ultimate public course; you could get paired up with anybody.  But I grew up about 6 blocks away, and my wife grew up even closer to the course.  It's home, and I dearly love it, even though the greens usually stiimp at around a 6 or so.  It is just a cool place; last week I played with an 86 yr. old Canadian named Ron McMillian, who played righthanded with a crosshand grip, but putted lefthanded.  He shot around a 95 despite never hitting a ball over 175 yds.; it was inspiring!  WWII vet like my dad, and has already outlived 3 wives.  That's Hillandale...

[Brian Laurent]

It doesn't get a whole lot of love in this forum, but the Grace Course at Saucon Valley serves as Lehigh's home course.  I'm not sure of its current ranking, but while I was growing up it was consistently in the top 10 in PA and was in the top 100 for quite some time.  Even though it's probably the third best at the club, it's still a great golf course and deserving of mention in this thread.  

[Cliff Hamm]

Because a university plays at a course does not make it a university course.  That is like saying Southampton HS has a course called Shinnecock Hills, if indeed they play there.  To me a university course is one owned by the university.

[Chuck Brown]

Some friends went to a Michigan football game this past fall and said they parked on a golf course for the tail gate party!!!!!

Would it have been *the* golf course?

Every time one of these threads comes up, the urban legend that Michigan exposes its Mackenzie-Maxwell golf course to automobile traffic rears its ugly head.

It is almost entirely untrue.

Here's the deal:

On no-rain home foootball Saturdays, cars are allowed to enter the grounds of the UMGC.  (On rainy days, they leave the gates shut altogether.)  Parking and tailgating are allowed in designated areas that include ONLY a few select areas bordering out-of bounds areas in the rough, and two other select locations.  One parking/tailgating sector is the old, abandoned practice range between the first and ninth fairways.  The other, newly added two years ago while the stadium parking lot was partially occupied with construction equipment for the Stadium renovation, was in an area of rough near the 13th and 14th holes.  The only time that cars tires touch any closely-mown areas is when they enter off of State Street or Main Street and cross a fairway, gallery-crossing style.  Yes, people are allowed to wander as pedestrians on the golf course on football Saturdays and the course is closed for play.  But the notion of row upon row of automobiles lined up across the fairways and greens  of the UMGC is completely false.

There is a private 9-hole course next door to the UMGC.  It is called the Ann Arbor Golf & Outing Club, and it is something of a glorified executive course.  They have a nice little clubhouse that offers wonderful dining, and it is virtually in the shadow of the Stadium.  AAG&O does allow parking, at very high cost to loyal patrons, all over its small course.  Cars get parked everwhere except roped-off putting greens and bunkers.  They have car-sized asphalt cart paths to assist in the endeavor.  Football parking is an integral part of the little club's finances.  Many if not most of the casual visitors at the AAG&O probably think they are on the University of Michigan Golf Course; they return home and tell their friends that they went to a Michigan game and they parked on one of the fairways of the University of Michigan Golf Course.  It simply isn't true.

[Ronald Montesano]

I love these three northeast university courses:  Taconic (Williams), Orchards (Mt. Holyoke) & Seven Oaks (Colgate), with Taconic and Orchards tied at the top.

I have yet to play Cornell (RTJ Sr.) and Yale (those guys), so I have to reserve judgement on them.

At Wake Forest, the campus nearly abuts Old Town Club and the team practices there, but it is not a college-affiliated course.

Middlebury has threatened for years to bring Patty Sheehan in to help redo the Ralph, but A) the money isn't there and b) why would you bring in Patty Sheehan?  Her connection to the college is, her dad was ski coach there for years and she grew up wandering the town as a child; her connection to golf course architecture is slight if at all.

[Chris Cupit]

Thinking about University Golf leaves me with fond memories skipping class late in the semester to head out for 18 on a random Wednesday.  I never get to play golf on a random Wednesday anymore

When I was in grad school at The University of Virginia in Charlottesville, we had a fun challenging course in Birdwood to play.  My father in law is a member at Farmington CC, accross the street and while the conditioning is superior there, I prefer the layout at Birdwood.  The wider fairways and (relatively) fewer trees make recovery shots more feasible.

And as a student, I paid about $200 per semester for unlimited play, much less than the cost of a parking pass.  On the weekend, daily fee players were spending around $75 to play.

Sean,

I played golf for UVA and the course is pretty and nice.  I haven't seen it since '91 but I'm shocked to hear more love for it then Farmington.  Because we had "our" course Farmington was less than welcoming but I played a round there with Dr. Rotella who was and is the nicest guy you'd ever meet.

ANyway, maybe we had to play it so much that it didn't wear well with me.  It had some really awkward/bad holes--I never liked #4 (that green was ridiculous and I assume they leveled it out a bit), #6 with all the goose sh*t in the fairways and green, #11 really awkward tee shot and then up to that blind tiered thing they called a green, #14 around the lake, #15 (did we really need another island green?)

However I liked 2,5,7,9,10,12,16,18 and it was a very pretty piece of land--I just can't help thinking it was great land that was under utilized.

I liked the Duke course and Stanford was a lot of fun as well.  I'm sure things changed a lot since 88-91 though!  OSU had Nationals my freshman year and I can't say I was overwhelmed but it was also set up with very heavy rough that makes for some monotonous golf.   

[Pete_Pittock]

Disclaimer. I haven't played there but Washington State's Palouse Ridge entered the conversation last year. Golfweek rated it the #2 public access course in Washington. Texas Tech's Rawls course.

Links Magazine just published their list of the top twenty-five university/college courses:
http://www.linksmagazine.com/golf_courses/features/best_college_courses/clemson_walker_college_golf_courses.aspx

[Link Walsh]

Pete,

Thanks for the link.  I had forgotten that I played the UGA course (listed #24 or something) last summer.  Davis Love redesigned it about 3 or 4 years ago apparently.  I have to say that I really enjoyed the round.  The greens are such that you wouldn't get bored playing the course over and over again. 

I've played Duke and Finley, and they each have some good qualities.  But comparing them to the UGA course, I'd much rather play in Athens (and for a lot less money too).  I'm looking forward to heading back out there this summer for a round or two.

[Nick Campanelli]

I was at the PSU-UM game last year and tailgated on the course......while it poured all day. We were one of the first ones on the course. While I didn't get to play it, I did walk it, And I will probably play the next time PSU heads back to Ann Arbor. The golf courses was torn up pretty badly following the game. Our car alone almost got stuck twice...based on looks I was impressed with the layout. Can't wait to play it.

[Simon Holt]

Someone will no doubt call me on a technicality but I spent the 4 best years of my life at the University of St. Andrews.  Our home course was you've guessed it....

In my 1st year, or freshman year as you guys call it, my links ticket cost £99.  All my golf for the year, any course in St. Andrews, and Kingsbarns for £10.  Tough one.

[Steve Lang]

  Spent time at Rawls Course today,  first  it has to have the largest range I've ever seen,  ..TOM DOAK.. after 5-6 inches of rain it drained very well.. if that was  your home course, your handicap would travel just fine, and you'd have nearly every shot the bag.  beats UNM..

[Jud_T]

Someone will no doubt call me on a technicality but I spent the 4 best years of my life at the University of St. Andrews.  Our home course was you've guessed it....

DING, DING, DING- WE HAVE A WINNER!

[Pete_Pittock]

except that The Old Course is not owned by St. Andrews University. Does Royal Worlington & Newmarket qualify?