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Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2006, 01:05:59 PM »
George -

BCC and Five Farms are one in the same.

Philip -

Thanks for those quotes. I always knew those tennis players were the root of all evil. With that said, my 5 month old son (GOLF) will probably play tennis :'(.
Mr Hurricane

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2006, 01:19:26 PM »
Craig Sweet,

If you owned the Mona Lisa, you could paint a mustache on her face.

But, you'd be throwing millions down the drain by doing so.

The Mona Lisa is a commodity, with value.  Alterations to it would devaluate it in the market place.

The problem with golf courses is that alterations to them don't usually result in a negative value, carried throuh to their owners.

DTaylor18

Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #52 on: January 31, 2006, 01:38:30 PM »
George -

BCC and Five Farms are one in the same.

Philip -

Thanks for those quotes. I always knew those tennis players were the root of all evil. With that said, my 5 month old son (GOLF) will probably play tennis :'(.

Jim, isn't it ironic that we are bringing tennis courts back to Five Farms next year!

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #53 on: January 31, 2006, 03:07:26 PM »
Thanks for the reminder. There better be some short skirted MILFs hanging out at the club :o.
Mr Hurricane

Jason Blasberg

Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #54 on: January 31, 2006, 03:37:44 PM »
"Property rights" was interjected by someone else.  


I interjected property rights b/c that's what you're really discussing.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2006, 03:38:00 PM by Jason Blasberg »

Jason Blasberg

Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2006, 03:39:06 PM »
Craig Sweet,

If you owned the Mona Lisa, you could paint a mustache on her face.

But, you'd be throwing millions down the drain by doing so.

The Mona Lisa is a commodity, with value.  Alterations to it would devaluate it in the market place.

The problem with golf courses is that alterations to them don't usually result in a negative value, carried throuh to their owners.

Pat:

Are you at least going to quote my Law as Economics reference or are you just going to blantantly plagarize my posts?   ;) ;)

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2006, 04:37:44 PM »
  This statement here is the one that riles me...

"...the tees on #12 will be pushed back and right taking the risk/reward out and forcing a layup. "

  How can an architect justify that decision?  If the pro players are all forced to make the same obvious decision, what interest is there in that hole?  Automaton execution?

  Good luck if you decide to fight it.
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

david h. carroll

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2006, 04:43:51 PM »
Slag--we are trying to fight it...originally there was also a stream which split the fairway at the bend of the dogleg which has been piped and covered and is now fairway....in my mind, uncovering the stream would create even more of the old risk reward in hole.

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2006, 05:42:21 PM »
Slag--we are trying to fight it...originally there was also a
stream which split the fairway at the bend of the dogleg
which has been piped and covered and is now fairway....in
my mind, uncovering the stream would create even more of
the old risk reward in hole.

To give people a look at what is being discussed at #12, here
is the current hole, where it is angled (less) enough to try to
shorten the dogleg (right) if you can carry it far enough over
the creek and hug the treeline.  A tee back and to the right
practically eliminates that option:



And the view from just short of the bend toward the green,
where the piped/covered creek comes out.  If the creek were
restored, the drive shown would have been wet, as it likely
wasn't far enough right:



Thanks for the reminder. There better be some short skirted MILFs hanging out at the club :o.

Jim,

They don't have to have given birth to be an ILF.  Maybe you could generalize with WILF.  8)
« Last Edit: January 31, 2006, 05:43:24 PM by Scott_Burroughs »

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2006, 06:30:29 PM »
Jason,

Think of it as simplification  ;D

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #60 on: January 31, 2006, 08:34:44 PM »
3) Jimmy Page could sue you and would win if you didn't have one of the rights articulated in 2, above (or some other form of permission).  BTW, in 100 years I'm sure Stairway to Heaven will be in the public domain so you'll be able to sample away.  Interestingly, the owner of the copyright to "Happy Birthday" supposedly never enforced the rights.  


Unfortunately I think its highly unlikely that Stairway to Heaven will be in the public domain in 100 years, or ever.  Congress will keep extending the copyright to protect Mickey Mouse from the evils of public domain.  The term is currently the lifetime of the author plus 70 years or 95 years for corporations (up from 28 years max in 1790)

Mickey Mouse was due to go into the public domain in the late 70s so Congress slapped on an extra 19 years of copyright, then it was in danger of happening again so they added another 20 years in 2001.  Every time Mickey gets close to going into the public domain Disney will call in the favors owed by all the congressmen it has bought and they will extend copyright again.  Nothing new has entered the public domain for decades, and I think we can pretty much give up hope of ever seeing anything new enter the public domain.  1923 is the newest we'll get.

Funny how Disney seems to think it has a right to make money off Mickey's back forever without him ever going public domain, but they have no problem making all the money off all the fairy tales from the 1800s that quickly entered the public domain allowing them the opportunity to turn them into moneymaking Disney franchises.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Jason Blasberg

Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #61 on: January 31, 2006, 11:23:53 PM »
Jason,

Think of it as simplification  ;D

Patrick:

So does the Efficient equal the Good.  Or am I just over simplifying things.

Jason

Jason Blasberg

Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #62 on: January 31, 2006, 11:39:53 PM »
"Does the same contempt for professional tour event golf at classics courses equally apply to USGA events, including most of them which are amateur events?"

Can someone please answer my question!??/???  
« Last Edit: February 01, 2006, 07:20:00 AM by Jason Blasberg »

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #63 on: February 01, 2006, 07:56:59 AM »
Scott -

Good point ;).
Mr Hurricane

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #64 on: February 01, 2006, 08:08:29 AM »
Let me see if I understand this.

If a classic course is going to be altered to accomadate a tournament, or new technology, its ok to talk about the changes and what they might do to individual holes, but it's not ok to engage in any type of campaign to discourage those changes being made by writing letters, contacting the PGA and USGA...protesting in anyway they can...for the good of the game. The argument being basiclly based on private property rights.

I'm speaking about an organized campaign by people that know and understand GCA.

Yet many of these very same people, that know and understand GCA, have no quams about writing letters, involving the USGA and PGA...and strongly voicing their opinions, and telling private enterprise...private business...what they should do for the good of the game? Such as roll back the ball, stop making technological advances.



No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

david h. carroll

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #65 on: February 01, 2006, 09:31:40 AM »
From today's Baltimore Sun:

A major coup for Five Farms
Baltimore Country Club course lands Senior Players Championship beginning in 2007
By Don Markus
Sun Reporter
Originally published February 1, 2006
More than 100 years after hosting its first major golf championship and 19 years after its last, Baltimore Country Club will become the site of the 2007 Senior Players Championship, with Baltimore-based Constellation Energy taking over from the Ford Motor Co. as the tournament's title sponsor.

The tournament will begin a five-year run in the Baltimore area next year, taking over from Dearborn, Mich., which had hosted the Senior Players for the past 16 years, with Ford the sponsor for most of that time.


   
One of five majors on the Champions Tour, the Senior Players Championship will be played Oct. 4-7 of that year, and will mark the fourth major professional event held at a place widely known as Five Farms. The 1899 U.S. Open was the first played at the club's original location two years after it opened in Roland Park. The current course, designed by the legendary AJ Tillinghast, was host to the 1928 PGA Championship and the 1988 U.S. Women's Open.

PGA Tour commissioner Tim Finchem said during an afternoon news conference at Baltimore Country Club that the history of the tournament's champions and the club's professional championships make it a perfect union.

"Seven World Golf Hall of Fame members have won this championship," said Finchem. "It's a testament to the quality of the tournament. We're so excited about coming here with the reputation of Baltimore Country Club. In terms of the field, it's a major championship. Everybody plays."

Finchem credited Constellation Energy president and CEO Mayo Shattuck III, whose company took over a financially strapped regular Senior Tour event three years ago at Hayfields Country Club in Hunt Valley, as the key player in putting together what became a five-year sponsorship deal.

With Constellation Energy as its sponsor, the tournament has raised $1.5 million for charity. The tournament will be played for the final time in September.

"If you're going to get anything done with multiple entities, the individual who can do that is somebody who has Mayo's people skills," Finchem said. "He's a determined guy, but he does the right thing and generates respect. He was wanting to do something like this, but the rest of the pieces need to be pulled together.

The most integral piece was finding a course suitable for a major championship. Hayfields was not deemed difficult enough to host a major championship or have ample space to accommodate larger crowds.

"The anxiety I had was the issue of whether we could get a world-class venue," Shattuck said. "We really, really wanted BCC, but felt that it was going to be a big hurdle to get over the membership. It turns out that the status of the tournament, their understanding of how much time it would be [for the course to be closed to membership] and damage to the course, all those things seem to come together and they were very enthused about it."

At least one future participant seemed ecstatic about the move of the Senior Players Championship. Fred Funk, who last year at age 48 became the oldest winner of The Players Championship and will become eligible for the Champions Tour when he turns 50 in June, hopes to have a happy homecoming there next year.

"I can't wait to one day win my true home players championship," said Funk, who grew up in College Park before graduating from and coaching at the University of Maryland. "I won my adopted one [near his home in Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla.] and now I want to win my home one. All the members at Five Farms need to be thanked for giving up their golf course at a great time of year. The playing conditions will be perfect."


Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #66 on: February 01, 2006, 09:46:12 AM »
Great, the best time to play at our club and we can't. What members are happy about this? DC, what do you think? I wish there was another club near me that was half as good and I would join it.
Mr Hurricane

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #67 on: February 01, 2006, 09:46:38 AM »
Craig Sweet,

I think you have to differentiate between being proactive, as you want to be, and viewing the issue as if you have a legal standing.

I don't think anyone would discourage you from being proactive and voicing your concerns.

david h. carroll

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #68 on: February 01, 2006, 09:51:19 AM »
Jimmy--you and I both know who they are....it's especially funny to think that Mayo isn't even a member as he sure acts like one....

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #69 on: February 01, 2006, 09:52:20 AM »
The more interesting and likely probability within the golf community would be the designation of a clubhouse belonging to a private club as a historical landmark that requires preservation.  It could have historical value because of the architect who designed it or some significant event which occurred there.  As I understand it, notification would have to be given to the club and the club would have some recourse concerning such designation if they chose to contest it.  Once so designated, the clubhouse could not be altered, etc., without approval of the agency or committee in charge of such properties.  

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #70 on: February 01, 2006, 09:55:29 AM »
patrick..

yes, being proactive.

there is no legal standing for a non-member.

No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #71 on: February 01, 2006, 10:35:22 AM »
Jim: If the course as we know it was firm and fast with a substantial rough and the greens running at 11 how do you think the pros would score?

DTaylor18

Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #72 on: February 01, 2006, 10:49:13 AM »
Jim: If the course as we know it was firm and fast with a substantial rough and the greens running at 11 how do you think the pros would score?

Jerry, from the black tees I think they would struggle. Those greens at 11 would give them fits.  That's whay the Champions TOur would never let them look that bad.

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Professional golf to ruin another classic gem
« Reply #73 on: February 01, 2006, 02:31:45 PM »
With the new tees they want AND stimping at 11, I bet a couple under would win it. Five Farms is one of the few places I play where most of my putts are defensive. At 9.5 I would think 10 under would win.
Mr Hurricane