[Kyle Harris]

I received this book for Christmas and just finished it last night.

Loved it, Mark Frost's prose was quite good considering the chaotic nature of reliving a hole golf tournament shot by shot.

I realize some artistic license may have been taken, but how accurate is the portrayal?

The Country Club at Brookline seemed to be no slouch of a golf course before Flynn came in 1927. How did the course differ in 1913 and what did Flynn do?

[PThomas]

I know the movie had Franis making bird att 18 in the playoff, which is asinine

[Kyle Harris]

Weird, in the book he makes par.

[Tom Huckaby]

Kyle - do a search - this has been discussed at least three times before.  Dan King reports that way too many liberties were taken with the story.  Me, I just enjoyed it, like you.  But damn you, you've dredged up something else for Dan and I to argue about in our round Sunday morning.  Brian Sleeman and his new wife are gonna think we hate each other.

 

[Kyle Harris]

Tom,

Come play with Mayday and Wayne sometime....

...or Doug Braunsdorf and I.

[Tom Huckaby]

I'd love it.  

These "discussions" are damn near always very very fun in person.

This was a good one, though.  Dan was not pleased with Mr. Frost.

TH

[Dan King]

Kyle Harris writes:
I realize some artistic license may have been taken, but how accurate is the portrayal?

There is a chance while making up the story Mr. Frost accidentally got a fact or two right.

Do not rely on The Greatest Game Ever Played as a source for historical information. It isn't even close. Read it as a fictional account of a true event. For me to go through all the errors he makes would require me to once again open it up, something I'd rather not do.

Dan King

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
 --Aldous Huxley

[Tom Huckaby]

Yahooo!  God man, Dan - you are among the truest to thine own self that I have ever met.

But anyway, had you given that advice way back when, we wouldn't have had an argument.  This also means it's a non-issue for our round Sunday.  

What you said before was the book SUCKS and ought to be burned, more or less.  I was the one saying just enjoy it for what it is.  I am gladdened to see you've finally come around.

 

[PThomas]

you rabble rouser you, Huck.......

[Dan King]

Tom Huckaby writes:
What you said before was the book SUCKS and ought to be burned, more or less.

I don't think I ever said burned. Seems a little extreme. But it is a bad book. The world would be a slightly better place if the book didn't exist. But if others want to read it, hey who am I to stop them. I just want them to know that any facts in there are only there be accident.

Dan King

A great deal of contemporary criticism reads to me like a man saying: "Of course I do not like green cheese: I am very fond of brown sherry."
 --G.K. Chesterton

[Tom Huckaby]

Paul - this is the kind of rabble even I am not above rousing, given I am gonna see the man in two days.

 

So Dan, well said.  You win this round, as you win most.  In fact if our battles were scored like boxing, I think you're ahead by about 14 points and we're in the 12th round.  I'm just not giving up on the late knockout.

 

[SL_Solow]

It was so bad I couldn't finish it.  I can't remember the last time that happened.  At least when Clair Bee wrote the Chip Hilton series (a treasured memory of my youth) he didn't pretend he was telling a true story.

[Tom Huckaby]

Shelly - interesting - I truly did enjoy the book.  But perhaps that's because I don't know many of the details of that golf battle, and don't really care that much to study.  For me, it was a very enjoyable story and I didn't care at all if he passed it on as true.

Dan rakes me over the coals for this, but hey, he's the writer and historian, I just play the game and watch reality TV.

 

So I ask - did it offend you because you know the real story, or what?

Because outside of that, well it was damn compelling.

TH

[Kyle Harris]

I am more interested in the depiction of the course/conditions of the time.

[Dan King]

Dude, when we get together this Sunday maybe you can explain why I should buy Yahoo stock. About a week ago I was thrilled to reach 950 posts, reaching YaBB godhood for my first time before you did it for your second. I felt like I almost had to dedicate my life to posting. Now you are some 200 posts ahead of me again.

How do you find the time?

Dan King

It is all very well to be able to write books, but can you waggle your ears?
 --J.M. Barrie

[Tony_Muldoon]

As soon as I started reading I just knew he was running with the story rather than the facts man. It was all those scripted converstions, but I thought it had a good plot and was atmospheric.

But the follow up Bobby Jones book can't get my interest at all - maybe because I know more about him than the characters of the first book?

[Tom Huckaby]

I cannot legally advise one way or the other, of course.  But your beloved Google took a rather large hit as well.    But most importantly, you need to treat this as Mr. Huntley did about Clorox - the more I am screwing around, the more that was time to BUY.  

But as for how I find the time to post, well.... I do a lot of waiting around for others to get things to me / respond to requests and "listening" on conference calls.  One does learn to multi-task to keep one's sanity.  On top of that, dammit we just fixed all at-home technical issues so the lure of this place extends now into my home life.  That is NOT a good thing.

It's gonna be fun on Sunday!

 

[Dan King]

Kyle Harris writes:
I am more interested in the depiction of the course/conditions of the time.

Then I beg you, do not rely on a fictional account for any sort of truth.

There are many better ways to get the information.

The Rare Book Collection www.greatgolfbooks.com, recently re-released Francis Ouimet's autobiography, A Game of Golf. If you are looking for true information about the true events, much better choice. If all you want is to be entertained, then I'm not the right critic of The Greatest Game Ever Played.

Dan King

After taking a bath, I walked home anf turned in early got a real night's rest. I slept from nine-thirty until eight the next morning, and after a light breakfast, hustled over to the Country Club for my play-off with Vardon and Ray.
 --Francis Ouimet

[Kyle Harris]

Dan,

I was wondering if Oiumet's Autobiography was available anywhere. The presence of the dialogue did lead me to believe there was much artisitic license. Also, Eddie Lowery seemed to be a little too well-spoken, but I don't know too much about it.

I'll consider this a gateway drug.  

[Tom Huckaby]

Kyle - that's a great way to look at it.  Dan convinced me of that the last few rounds of this.

So to me that's what's cool about this... rather than it being damaging, it's inspired guys like you and me to dig deeper.  And I'd love to read Ouimet's autobiography as well.  I am off to that website.

TH

[PThomas]

you would think that the most important round in the history of AMerican golf wouldn't need to be embellished..

imagine some TOTAL unknown amateur beating Tiger and and , say, Justin Leonard , in  US Open playoff...that's kind of the equivalent of what Francis did

[Tom Huckaby]

Paul:

If that happened today, no embellishment would be possible, we would have all seen it on TV.

The fact is that this 1913 event had no such thing; in fact media accounts from the time even differ on details (don't they, Dan?  I remember that from previous discussions).

And of course there were no recordings of conversations, nor can anyone know for sure what was going through Ouimet's head.

I do find it pretty inexcusable that the author apparently didn't even consult Ouimet's autobiography.  He surely could have done a better job getting the story right, and some of the factual errors are cringe-inducing.  Dan showed me the light there.

But in the end, well... where I differ from Dan - and perhaps you - is that I think the world is a BETTER place for this book.  Like Kyle said, we can and should use it as a gateway drug.  Yes, there is danger in that too many take it as gospel truth, but heck, in the end the more people know about this event AT ALL and about Ouimet at all the better... so for me the good of this outweighs the bad of the factual errors.

But like I say, I'm a golf yokel consumer and follower of reality TV; Dan is a writer, historian and devotee to causes.  If one has to err here, err with him.

TH

[John Keenan]

If you would like the details of the 1913 Open and many other great amateur events I suggest you read the The Game of Golf by Francis Quimet.  Though written a long time ago it is still a very nice book.

[Tom Huckaby]

JK - see reply 17 - the great Mr. King turned us on to that already.

 

[John Keenan]

The story of my life a day late and you know the rest

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