[Brian Cenci]

A friend and I are taking a golf trip (somewhat now annual) to the North Carolina area in early March.  

Last fall I organized the trip and we played 17 courses in 16 days (from Michigan to Oregon, all driving), which included a good mix of public and private.  They were: Victoria National, Olympia Fields, The Harvester, Wild Horse, Prairie Dunes, Redlands Mesa, Lakota Canyon Ranch, Bandon Dunes, Pacific Dunes, Bandon Trails, Circling Raven, Old Works, Links of North Dakota, Hawktree, Hazeltine National, Quarry at Giants Ridge and Greywalls.

Anyways, he has organized the trip this year and since I know a number of you live there and have familiarity with the best courses I wanted to know if you had some suggestions on our schedule and where we are playing.  Also, we both belong to private courses so if you know of some good private courses that we may want to look at then let me know.

Now our schedule is somewhat limited by money (my friend is still in school, even though we are playing a few courses that are more expensive) and especially by lodging (staying with friends most of the time).  So for purposes of input, assume the relative area in which we are staying is fixed.

MARCH 4th, Winston-Salem = Tanglewood Park (Champ.)
MARCH 5th, Winston-Salem = Reynolds Park
MARCH 6th, Southern Pines = Mid Pines & Pine Needles
MARCH 7th, Raleigh = Tobacco Road
MARCH 8th, Raleigh = Kinght's Place Golf Course
MARCH 9th, Raleigh = The Neuse Golf Club
MARCH 10th, Richmond =

Now, I want to play Tanglewood, Mid Pines, Pine Needles and Tobacco Road for sure.  The others were selected more based on price by him.  I haven't really looked into the trip thoroughly at other options.  So any suggestions, I'd appreciate any input?

[Scott_Burroughs]

Knight's Play?  That's a par 3 course whose distinction is being lit up for night play (hence the name play).  Granted, I've never played it, so I can't vouch otherwise.  Stay in Southern Pines and play....Southern Pines.  I think you'd have fun at Tot Hill Farm (Strantz) near Asheboro, but to each his own (I'd play THF before Tobacco Road).

In case you care, it's likely that Tanglewood, Southern Pines, and possibly The Neuse will all be dormant brown/tan w/no overseeded fairways (no green) other than the tees and greens.

If you're near Richmond, head east down I-64 about 20 minutes and play Royal New Kent, another Strantz design.

[Brian Cenci]

Scott,
    Yea...i'm not sure about the Knight's Play course, I knew it was a Par 3 but I think we are going out the night before for a heavy drinking regiment and are expecting a late start the next day.  That course near Richmond, Royal New Kent, is where I think we are leaning towards playing.  The browned out everything doesn't bother me.  Being from Michigan, I relaly liked it last year when we encountered it at Tanglewood.  

Thanks for the input!

-Brian

[A.G._Crockett]

Two pretty simple adjustments while you are in the Triangle area would be Duke (RTJ, redone well by Rees) and UNC (Fazio) .  Easy access, and not outrageously expensive.

[David_Madison]

Brian - In Winston Salem, play Old Town. I think it belongs among the top 5 in NC. It's an old, very low key but fabulous Perry Maxwell course that serves as the home course for Wake Forest's golf team. In Greensboro, Bryan Park Champions course is a fine (and not expensive) public course that was built to possibly host the Greensboro PGA Tour event. In the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area, play Raleigh CC and Hope Valley, both well regarded Donald Ross designs (and if you are going to be in this area, make sure to head down to Franklin Street in Chapel Hill for an evening.) Duke's course is also worth seeing if you have time. I'd also suggest Governors Club in Chapel Hill, a far better than average Nicklaus design, but we had to shut down for some greens reworking, and I don't think we'll be open in time for your trip. But if you are, it's worth seeing, especially #'s 10 - 27. In the Pinehurst area, CCNC, which has hosted the US Am, has two courses that are both worth playing. Forest Creek also has two fine courses. Of everything above, if you can only add one, play Old Town. And now you can add a week to your itinerary!

[Jay Flemma]

I'd drop Mid-Pines...its a shaggier, less inspiring version of Pine Needles, which was fun following Fought's spitshine.  I like the finish.  Two good stiff par-4s coming home.  Also lots of interesting lines of charm like little bunkers sprinkling 15 fairway (or is it 14...the par-5 in either case.

What a fantastic trip you guys did out west.  What did you think of Lakota canyon Ranch?  Did you try to walk it.

I did.  I needed a break and extra oxygen;)  Hello?  Walking paths, guys?

[A.G._Crockett]

Brian - In Winston Salem, play Old Town. I think it belongs among the top 5 in NC. It's an old, very low key but fabulous Perry Maxwell course that serves as the home course for Wake Forest's golf team. In Greensboro, Bryan Park Champions course is a fine (and not expensive) public course that was built to possibly host the Greensboro PGA Tour event. In the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area, play Raleigh CC and Hope Valley, both well regarded Donald Ross designs (and if you are going to be in this area, make sure to head down to Franklin Street in Chapel Hill for an evening.) Duke's course is also worth seeing if you have time. I'd also suggest Governors Club in Chapel Hill, a far better than average Nicklaus design, but we had to shut down for some greens reworking, and I don't think we'll be open in time for your trip. But if you are, it's worth seeing, especially #'s 10 - 27. In the Pinehurst area, CCNC, which has hosted the US Am, has two courses that are both worth playing. Forest Creek also has two fine courses. Of everything above, if you can only add one, play Old Town. And now you can add a week to your itinerary!

David,
How does Brian get access to Old Town, Hope Valley, Raleigh CC, Gov. Club, and CCNC?  I've played Hope Valley many times because my best friend growing up is a member, but all of these are private and some are pretty tough tickets.

[Rob_Waldron]

You indicated that you were planning to play in Richmond on March 10. I would highly recommend either of the Stranz courses between Richmond and Williamsburg, Traditions @ Royal New Kent or Traditions at Stonehouse. Both are excellent!. North of Richmond just east of King's Dominion is Bob Lohman's Mattaponi Springs. It was voted as #2 best new daily fee course in 2005 by Golf Digest. You honestly cannot go wrong with any of these three. Of course if you can get on Lester George's Kinloch GC forget all others!

[Andy Hughes]

I think you'd have fun at Tot Hill Farm (Strantz) near Asheboro, but to each his own (I'd play THF before Tobacco Road).

Scott, I've never seen anyone say this.  Why the preference for Tot Hill?

[Paul Payne]

Another good choice in the Raleigh area is the Heritage GC . It is about 15 minutes north of the airport towards Wake Forest. It is a very good course and well maintained. I have played many courses in the area but it remains one of my favorites around Raleigh.

[Scott_Burroughs]

I think you'd have fun at Tot Hill Farm (Strantz) near Asheboro, but to each his own (I'd play THF before Tobacco Road).

Scott, I've never seen anyone say this.  Why the preference for Tot Hill?

I meant play THF the day before TR.

Tobacco Road is much better.  If he played TR first, THF would be a let down the day after that.  I always prefer to save the best for last.

[John Shimp]

Brian,
I would not suggest dropping MidPines as Jay flemma mentioned earlier. It is a far different course from its across street neighbor Pine needles. Mid Pines has a totally different feel than PN.  Holes tend to be much tighter and intimate feeling.  Greens are quite a bit smaller and sometimes more severe.  Also, course has several real nice short par 4s like hole 4, 12, and 17. MidPines is fun and relaxing to play as well and has a great grill room for after the round. Other big difference is that MP is relatively untouched vs. PN which has been redone recently.  PN is also a great experience but is more wide open and expansive feeling. It has a tournament ready feel to it.

If there is a way. You might enjoy playing Southern Pines (Elks Club) CC in southern Pines.  Old Ross course that is on a great piece of land.  Extremely cheap to play (<$30 or so).  I played it last fall and really had fun.

[Andy Hughes]

I meant play THF the day before TR.

D'oh!! Sorry for the mis-read Scott.  

[Brian_Marion]

Brian,

I live in Winston-Salem. Reynolds Park can be spotty at times and does get a lot of play from the retired set. Try the following:

Near Tanglewood- Oak Valley (Palmer), Salem Glen (Day)
Also- Meadowlands (Irwin)
In High Point- Oak Hollow (Dye)
G'Boro- Bryan Park Champ, Grandover


Drop me a line at golfinc@yahoo.com.
If you would like to drop Reynolds Park, I have a suggestion that I think you would like.



Brian

[Jay Flemma]

Yeah, Sean's right...play tobacco road twice.  Stone house is having conditioning issues, play royal new kent instead...it also had some green issues, but compared to the fairway probs at stone house...

I hope they get those resolved...RNK is one of my faves.

[David_Madison]

[David,
How does Brian get access to Old Town, Hope Valley, Raleigh CC, Gov. Club, and CCNC?  I've played Hope Valley many times because my best friend growing up is a member, but all of these are private and some are pretty tough tickets.]

A.G. - Brian mentioned that he was a member of a private club, which is why I included those. I wouldn't think that most of the clubs are all that difficult to access with a pro to pro call, certainly not the ones other than the clubs down in the Pinehurst area. Besides, in early March, access should be a lot easier than it would a month or so later. And I'm at the Governors Club, so that's an automatic.

[Tony_Chapman]

Brian - I think you should play Southern Pines, for sure. Great Ross lay of the land architecture at it's finest. Sean is probably right, that you could play the Deuce and SPCC for what you are paying to play at Mid Pines and Pine Needles. And, play TR twice. Heck, I'd play TR seven or eight times, but I'm a Strantzophile anyway.

If you need accomodations in Pinehurst, drop me an IM. Everytime I go back to Pinehurst SPCC and TR will be musts and I'll figure out what to play by the mood I'm in.

[Dan_Callahan]

Definitely play Royal New Kent over Stonehouse. I played both last year at the same time of year you are scheduling. Although the mornings were pretty cold, things really warmed up by 11 or so. RNK was pretty brown, but in a good way. Do me a favor: count how many times during your round you stand on the tee and laugh out loud. Some of the visual intimidation on that course—and the artistic creativity that is behind it—is amazing. I've never seen anything like it—but I've never played Tobacco Road.

[Brian Cenci]

Isn't Southern Pines a private course?  We'd like to play it though from all of your comments.  

I think there is a consensus on Richmond, Royal New Kent.

As far as Mid Pines and Pine Needles, I feel inclined to keep them, rather than play once at Pinehurst No. 2.  

I think we're definetly now looking at maybe nailing down a private.  Raliegh CC would definetly be an option, if we can get it set up as a recipricol.  Brian, you mentioned a manner in which to get on the course?

Keep the comments coming, getting some good info.

-Brian

[cary lichtenstein]

I would have to agree 100%, play Tot Hill Farm first and then Tobacco Road. Both are worth playing, but the contrast is quite remarkable

[Lawrence Largent]

I just came back from the area and Greensboro Country club was a real treat shortish but lots of movement in the land and lots of character. To my knowledge most courses in N. Carolina are very accomdating if you have your pro call ahead and make the time for you. A hidden gem in the area or should i say about an hour west of Winston Salem in Morganton is Mimosa Hills a great old Ross recently restored by kris Spence who did an awesome job. I do know that Olde Towne does not allow play without a member. Starmount CC in Greensboro is another Perry Maxwell recently worked on by Lester George you may give that a shot also.

Lawrence

[Nathan Cashwell]

Winston Salem: Definitely Old Town, if you can, if not hit Tanglewood

Greensboro: Sedgefield CC (1926 Ross)

Charlotte: Cedarwood CC (Ellis Maples with recent Spence renovation) or Charlotte Golf Links

Morganton: Mimosa Hills CC (low key Ross restored by Spence in 2003) private, but very affordable, home course of Billy Joe Patton

Sanford: Tobacco Road (twice if you can)

In Raleigh if you don't want to play a par-3 but are also a little too hung over to handle a five hour round try Raleigh Golf Association (RGA).  Short course (about 6500 yards I think), public, very affordable, and some interesting natural ground features.

Spend at least one night on Franklin St., and another night on Glenwood South in the Power District in Raleigh.  Good bars and incredible scenery, especially on Franklin St.

Enjoy

[Paul Carey]

Just to add to the Old Town recommendation if you can get on...abslolutely a gem.

Oak Hollow in High Point is very good and early and subtle Dye.  Like the Golf Club in Columbus (NO, I AM NOT COMPARING THESE TWO IN QUALITY) it is a real treat to play the understated Pete Dye courses in contrast to some of his other work.  

It is hard to believe that Starmount is a Perry Maxwell design.  If so the renovations have removed any of the original that I can see.

[Nathan Cashwell]

Starmount's clubhouse burned down in the 50's and most, if not all of their records were lost.  Somehow the rumor that it was a Maxwell got started and stuck.  It is definitely not a Perry Maxwell, it is a Stiles and Van Kleek with an original routing/ consultation by Ross.  Maxwell probably stopped by once or twice while doing Old Town.  And yes the redesigns wiped virtually all of the original SFCC off of the property, unfortunately.  It had some very good holes, and some unique characteristics that all of the excessive earth moving did away with.  It also shared the original GGO with Sedgefield.

[Dunlop_White]

Nathan,

We're either both right or wrong! Our stories jive about Maxwell being mistakenly attributed to Starmount. Historian, Chris Clouser, and his research have confirmed this, I do believe.

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