[mark chalfant]

Is any of Maxwell's work still existing in the northeast. If so where ?   thanks    (I think he worked at Saucon Valley)

[Chris_Clouser]

Mark,

Maxwell only worked really in the Philly and New York areas.  Here is a breakdown by city.

Philly
Gulph Mills - renovated 5 holes on the course and most of those changes are in place, but Gil Hanse, I believe recently made some changes and Tom Paul can elaborate on how much of Maxwell's work is still in place.
Melrose - the only complete course that Maxwell ever constructed in Philly.  Pieces of the original design remain, but the Parkway construciton eliminated some great holes from the original routing.  
Philly CC - Some of the greens still retain some of his recontouring and the tenth hole is still laid out in the same manner that he rerouted it.
Pine Valley - The 8th and 9th greens that he built are still in place and the bunkers on the right side of the 5th hole are still in place.
Saucon Valley (Old) - Maxwell only redid two holes there and they are still in place.  I think for the club they play as the 11th and 12th now.  I would have to check on that.
He did some other minor work that has been obliterated since at Flourtown and it is believed that he did some work at Merion, but not much else is known about that other than a lot of references to him doing something there.  

Maxwell also maintained an office in Elkins Park, so I believe there was more work in the region than is currently unknown.  Or else I doubt that a frugal man would have had an office.

New York - This area is much more fuzzy.  Most of the work that Maxwell did was on Long Island, with a couple of exceptions.  Most of my information on the Long Island came from Vernon Woods, Perry's nephew as he accompanied him to Long Island the summer Perry worked in New York.
Rockaway HC - Some work to repair the course from the 1938 Hurricane.  Not sure how much is still there as the course has been touched since then.
Maidstone - Some believe he built the current 17th green.  Strong evidence supports that he did some consulting work there in the wake of the hurricane and even some minor work after consulting.
National - He did some work there in the mid 30s prior to the hurricane, but no one knows for sure what.  But based on the work, Macdonald hired him to work at the Links Club and referred him to several other clubs in New York later on after the hurricane ran through.
Huntington CC - Not sure the extent of the work
Perhaps there were others as well.  Vernon remembered going to several places, but the only one that he could really remember the name of was Rockaway.

Maxwell also worked at Westchester CC.  If you want to see the details of what he did in the late 30s there, read the In My Opinion piece on the course on this site.  Good stuff there.

There was also a belief in the family that he did some work at some course in Connecticut, but no one seemed to know what it was and I haven't been able to track down any leads to such work.

Hope this helps.

[Kyle Harris]

Chris,

Melrose is soon to be NLE, the club recently sold to a developer.

[TEPaul]

"Gulph Mills - renovated 5 holes on the course and most of those changes are in place, but Gil Hanse, I believe recently made some changes and Tom Paul can elaborate on how much of Maxwell's work is still in place."

Mark:

Perry Maxwell's holes at GMGC are totally in place and recently restored. Gil realized if he screwed up even one blade of grass on those Mawell holes at GMGC he would be immediately blown to smithereens by me and my one and only personal missile that was trained in on him every minute he worked on our Maxwell holes.

[TEPaul]

To be honest most all of what was left of Maxwell at Melrose wasn't really worth saving.

Do you think that Goddamned Korean guy who purchased Melrose saying he was going to save the club bought the place just to flip it to development?    

[Mike_Cirba]

Chris,

What do you know about Maxwell's involvement at the present Chester Valley CC, which has alternately been listed at times as designed by Perry and by Donald Ross.  I believe the course was originally known as Pennsylvania CC, or some such thing?

The present day course only retains a few original greensites, having been reconfigured by George Fazio.

[Mike_Cirba]

To be honest most all of what was left of Maxwell at Melrose wasn't really worth saving.

Except for the amazing 2nd hole, and a few other little gems and greens.  

[wsmorrison]

"Philly CC - Some of the greens still retain some of his recontouring and the tenth hole is still laid out in the same manner that he rerouted it."

I'm not so sure we can identify if and which greens retain the recontouring.  Club minutes after the work was done clearly state that greens had problems and had to be reworked.  Was it done and by whom?  I have no idea.

As for the tenth hole, I would guess that Maxwell oversaw the rerouting of the tenth hole but it was according to the Flynn plans for the remodeling of the golf course for the 1939 Open.  Flynn's notes about all the changes and the drawings for the changes exist and demonstrate the hole (formerly the sixth) was rerouted from a dogleg left to a dogleg right.  The green was built according to Flynn's plan.  I'm not sure about the internal contouring.

[Chris_Clouser]

Mike,

The current location of Chester Valley was not the original site of the club.  The club moved to Malvern from Llarnech in the late 1920s.  The original site was where Maxwell designed the course for the Pennsylvania Golf Club in 1923.  When they moved to Malvern they had Donald Ross design the new course which has since been redone by Fazio.

I agree the second hole there is quite amazing.  It was originally the finishing hole for the front nine.  The back nine went over the terrain that is across the Parkway and had some greens and tees switched up over the years.  Also the Parkway eliminated some excellent holes in the original 13th and 18th holes.  

[TEPaul]

Chris:

Are you sure Maxwell had nothing to do with the present Chester Valley? A pretty significant member of that club and a guy who used to frequent this website thinks the present 4th hole at Chester Valley is the course's last vestige of Maxwell.

What's so amazing about the 2nd hole of Melrose? For some reason it isn't coming to mind.

[Bill Shotzbarger]

Par 5, only 470 or so

The 2nd (or 3rd) shot is off a downhill lie to this little green with a huge falloff in the back, and I believe the green is bunkered on both sides. Its tiny green has some pretty bold contour that can be seen on other holes on the course. It also has huge elevation change, the tee shot is downhill and then uphill to the green. The hole reminds me a lot of Eastward Ho, and that's probably why it's one of the few on the course that I like.

[mark chalfant]

Tom Paul:when time permits could you tell us which 5 holes are Maxwells at Gulph Mills. aad briefly describe one or two of them  thanks

[Robert Emmons]

No evidence of Maxwell at Huntington C. C. this was discussed before in regards to work done after the great hurricane...RHE

[TEPaul]

"Tom Paul:when time permits could you tell us which 5 holes are Maxwells at Gulph Mills. aad briefly describe one or two of them  thanks"

Mark:

I'd be glad to. It's probably very representative of not only what happened generally in the 1930s with courses like mine but also why.

Maxwell came in on three separate occasions in the 1930s. In 1934, 1937 and 1938.

In 1934 he relocated the 8th green and the 10th greens.

The 8th hole was app 400 yards but the green was way above the fairway, around 35-40 ft or so with some bunkering cut into the hill up to the green.

Luckily for me, in writing the design evolution of GMGC, all our board minutes are intact from 1916 on.

Over a period of about 15-17 years it had become apparent through play that Ross's 8th hole at 400 yards and on its particular topography was just not working for a good slice of the membership, and looking at where that original green was there is very little doubt why.

So Maxwell came in and moved the green down to the base of the hill shortening the hole by about 80-90 yards and making what many consider to be on of the most interesting (and sometimes bedeviling) little short par 4s in the district.

The Maxwell green on this hole is also of real interest, I think. It may be the first one in app a half dozen he did elsewhere that are the same concept and basically the same green and greenside bunker scheme, the only real variation being that he flipped around the various green quadrants. (one of those later iterations is ANGC's #7)

Four of the five redesign greens Maxwell did at GMGC are probably the best greens on the golf course and one or two are some of the best to be found.

The holes he redid in the 1930s are #7, #8, #10, #11 and #14.

The only one of those holes of Ross's I really would've liked to play was #11. It was a 229 yard uphill par 3!! Interestingly, it's still on the ground. The tees are still visible and the green (which was huge) is still a rise to a flat portion of the fairway, the greenside bunkers (on the right) Maxwell kept and reused as fairway bunkering, and a really big Ross "top shot" bunker Maxwell reused as a carry bunker for the tee shot.

[ForkaB]

Mark

Sounds like you're writing a term paper.  Can you tell us anything about it?  Can you publish it here when it's finished?

[Chris_Clouser]

Tom Paul,

Positive on the Chester Valley item.  The original course at that location was designed by Ross.  

[TEPaul]

Chris:

I'll tell that to the club because they apparently don't realize that.

I'd also like to talk to you about what I consider to be something of a prototype green design or concept by Maxwell ala GMGC's #8 and ANGC's #7. I think there's another at perhaps Prarie Dunes (maybe a par 3 green), and a few more elsewhere.

Do you think Maidstone's #17 green is Maxwell? Bill Coore is convinced it is.

[Chris_Clouser]

Tom,

As for Chester Valley, I would suggest they look at their own historical meeting notes.  That is where I found the information about the new course.  I was under the same impression until someone sent me that information.  It was then that I tracked down the original course in Llarnech that was the Maxwell design.  The Malvern site was definately a Ross course.  I think I forwarded an old aerial to Brad Klein to get his opinion and he felt the course was probably done by the guy that was Ross' top guy in the Northeast at the time.  Not sure what his name was.  And yes the electrical wires were there at that time as well.

I believe that the 8th green at Gulph Mills is a prototype green similar to what Maxwell used at ANGCs#7.  That type of green design was also used at several other courses, mostly on par 3s.  The 2nd at Prairie Dunes, 2nd at Old Town and many of his other courses had the same style of green with typically five bunkers around the putting surface.  It was generally used on the shortest par three of a course.  But the green complex would be very servicable on short par fours as well.  The original design of the 17th at Dornick Hills was the first of this style of green that Maxwell constructed.  

The basic thought on most of the ones I have seen is to create three distinct areas in one green complex.  Five bunkers were used on almost all of them with one of the bunkers being very distinctive.  At Gulph Mills it is the front left.  At Dornick it was the front left as well.  There Maxwell constructed a pit that was about 10 feet deep that was part of a shared hazard with the 7th hole.  This idea I believe came from his study of the National and the 6th hole there, but he didn't want to copy the design of that great hole.  

I have heard that several times about Maidstone, and I guess it is possible, but there is no hard evidence to suggest what was actually done by Maxwell on site, just evidence that he was there and provided some consulting services and that some of his suggestions were perhaps followed by the club over the next few years.  Others have also commented that they think the same complex was a typical Park green.  So I won't go out on that limb.  

Oh, I just noticed your question on the 2nd at Melrose, originally the 9th.  The tee shot is slightly uphill, but the fairway has a roller-coaster type of feel as it goes up and down and back up again along with a slight slope towards the Parkway side of the course.  I believe the trees to the left are pretty impossible to get out of and play towards the green. They were pretty thick when I was there a couple years ago.  Anyway, if the player gets in that depression in the fairway the green is almost impossible to hit.  There is another depression to the left of the green as well. This featured a very ornate bunker guarding the left side of the green and was one of the changes that Mackenzie advised Maxwell to make to the course before construciton was finished.  The hole was originally another long par four and is now a tame par five.  Example of where par mentally makes a hole much easier to play.  

[TEPaul]

"Tom,
As for Chester Valley, I would suggest they look at their own historical meeting notes.  That is where I found the information about the new course.  I was under the same impression until someone sent me that information.  It was then that I tracked down the original course in Llarnech that was the Maxwell design.  The Malvern site was definately a Ross course.  I think I forwarded an old aerial to Brad Klein to get his opinion and he felt the course was probably done by the guy that was Ross' top guy in the Northeast at the time.  Not sure what his name was.  And yes the electrical wires were there at that time as well."

Chris:

That's probably a good example of a club having good material and just failing to look at it or look at it properly.

Ross's guy in the Northeast? That must have been J.B.McGovern, the famous Ross "multi-set" bunker guy.  

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