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HamiltonBHearst

Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2006, 09:23:34 AM »


How about one hole from each course.  It is difficult because you could pick any hole from Friar's Head or Sand Hills.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #51 on: January 19, 2006, 09:36:25 AM »
I'm slightly surprised by the love shown for the 15th at Victoria National.  Sure, that photo from the green looking back is appealing.  Let's see one from the tee which will reveal one of the most claustrophobic driving holes one will encounter.  I kept hummimg "this is the forest of no return" on the tee box.  

It's a good, theatrical golf hole.  

Ditto for the 16th. Fazio does penal surprisingly well, but I like the obscure 7th better and the visual respite it provides.

Switching gears, I'm with Sean Leary on Fazio's 8th at Aldarra.  He couldn't resist a little framing on the outside of the dogleg, but it's a beautiful hole draped on a slight hillside.  A superb driving hole.

Props to Sean for mentioning the 2nd at Spyglass - a quirky rascal that is trumped by the 4th much too soon.

Mike

Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Jason Blasberg

Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #52 on: January 19, 2006, 10:15:03 AM »
Here's my front nine:


1 Cuscowilla (C&C) 4
2 Boston GC (Hanse) 4
3 Pacific Dunes (Doak) 5
4 Bandon Dunes (Kidd) 4
5 Galloway National (Fazio) 3
6 Tobacco Road (Strantz) 3
7 Laurel Links (Moran) 5
8 LI National (R. Jones) 4
9 The Baiting Hollow Club f/k/a Fox Hill (RT Jones ) 4

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #53 on: January 19, 2006, 10:57:03 AM »


I'm embarrassed to say that on some of these courses, I can't remember every hole anymore.  (So much for the renowned photographic memory!)  However, I figure that if I can't remember the hole in question, it probably does not qualify for a list of the 18 best holes in golf.


Adam Clayman has remembered a few of my Cowboys holes, but got the hole numbers wrong.  What does it mean if you remember a hole, but not its hole number?  Does that make it any less of a hole?  Or does it just mean we all have less of a memory than we used to?

(Note:  I often do the same thing, being able to recall a hole's features, but not its number.  Of course, sometimes this comes from playing a course in a shotgun and playing out of order)  In other cases, its just my 50 year old brain, methinks.

BTW, if I was picking a hole of my own to add to the list, Jason's suggestion of No. 6 at the Quarry would be it, or very close to it.  In golfer surveys, most seem to like the 13th better.  Both are good short par 4 holes for course variety, if that comes into play.

At Cowboys, it would be the uphill par 3 17th.  Other candidates might be Colbert Hills No. 7, a 600 yard par 5 with a 100 elevated tee, or one of the double fw holes at Fortune Bay, like 4 or 16.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2006, 11:00:44 AM by Jeff_Brauer »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

A_Clay_Man

Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #54 on: January 19, 2006, 11:14:03 AM »
Jeff, In the case of Cowboys (and others) not remembering the hole number is more of a function of riding a cart than brain flatulence. However, I reserve the right to claim sometimers. Also, It could be a sign the archie missed the nail on the routing. ;)

I know I didnt answer the orig posit, but WTH neither did TD.



« Last Edit: January 19, 2006, 11:24:26 AM by Adam Clayman »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #55 on: January 19, 2006, 11:41:04 AM »
Steve S:  If you've got holes by Art Hills or Hurdzan/Fry to nominate, nominate away.  I've only seen about three courses by each of them.  I guess the best Arthur Hills hole I've seen is the 7th at Bay Harbor (Links nine).  

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #56 on: January 19, 2006, 11:45:42 AM »

Jason:

I thought the great hole at Doonbeg was indisputably the par-5 13th.  There are some very good holes at National (Moonah) but nothing I liked better than that.


Tom - why do you think that hole is so good?  Although I only played it once, I found it a bit awkward.


Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #57 on: January 19, 2006, 11:50:48 AM »
My favorite Arthur Hills I have played (out of 4 or 5) is the 15th at Chaska Town Course.  Here is a thread I started on it:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=17262;start=msg304218#msg304218

Aidan Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #58 on: January 19, 2006, 12:12:10 PM »
Doonbeg's 13th green.


Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #59 on: January 19, 2006, 12:15:26 PM »
I would nominate Old Works #6 by Nicklaus. {600, 570, 552, 497, 459} 5
It is my favorite hole on the course.



As you can see, it turns left with my slice, er... fade. Then you have to hug the waste area on the right for the best approach. I also find the hole humorous as often my playing partners are climbing the slag pile seen in the picture to find the drive they faded (actually sliced  ;D )  onto the top of. Another interesting nongolf factor is the rough you see on the right of the picture is home to some fox dens. So, if my fade gets away from me, I am playing some foxy golf.

The hole is named Black Canyon, because it plays between two large pre-existing mining slag piles of which you only see a portion of one in the picture.  The diagram shows the green is next to the left slag pile. That is the only portion of the slag piles that are shown in the diagram. All the rest is either waste area or bunker (the mining slag was used to fill the bunkers and waste areas).
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Aidan Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #60 on: January 19, 2006, 12:36:40 PM »
Old Works #6.


Jay Cox

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #61 on: January 19, 2006, 12:42:05 PM »
To anyone answering the original question -
Discounting the problem of continuity, do you think your proposed eclectic is better than (or would win a match play against) Sand Hills -- or PD, or Rustic, or whatever your favorite modern course is?

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #62 on: January 19, 2006, 12:47:49 PM »
Aidan,

Wow!
You must have been close in witha wide angle lense to flatten the terrain of #6 out like that.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Aidan Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #63 on: January 19, 2006, 12:53:46 PM »
Garland,

If memory serves me correct, so are you.

Aidan.

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #64 on: January 19, 2006, 12:58:02 PM »
Harbottle:

Monarch Bay - #4 and #12 ...
Stevinson Ranch - #7 and #16 ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

redanman

Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #65 on: January 19, 2006, 01:06:11 PM »


How about one hole from each course.  It is difficult because you could pick any hole from Friar's Head .

No you can't! (I haven't played Sand Hills so I deleted it from the quote) and there aren't many you can pick from Old Sandwich.  Stop the deity worship Hammy. ;)

It is clear that:

--People aren't reading the thread

---I picked a Hurdzan/Frye hole for my 18. (Someone mentioned NO H&F and I'm not a fan of their work and picked one!)

---I was joking about #15 at Victoria National because it's particularily terrible. Awful from that back tee I specifically mentioned.

Art Hills
Legacy Ridge #3 par 5 and #15 par 4 are pretty good.

 :-[ :-[ I forgot Jeff Brauer! (Shame on me!) I forget the number of the holes I like at Cowboys, I'll get them and there is a real good hole at Canterrbury in Parker.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #66 on: January 19, 2006, 01:18:48 PM »
...
---I picked a Hurdzan/Frye hole for my 18. (Someone mentioned NO H&F and I'm not a fan of their work and picked one!)
...
How about just Hurdzan. Bully Pulpit 15 and 17 are excellent holes. Whitten said 15 is one of his favorite par 3s all time.
17 is a par 5 dogleg left along a tributary of the Little Missouri. The fairway is hugely wide and there is a set of bunkers in the middle. Drive across the nearest bunker and you might reach the green with a huge carry across the bend in the stream. Drive across the furthest bunker and you have a much more managable carry with more safety on the other side. Play short of the bunkers and you have to decide to play safe all the way around the bend, or lay up to it for a shorter approach to the green. Spectacular view from the tee.

As a matter of fact, Bully Pulpit is the only course I have seen with a scenic turnout on the cart path. As I was hiking the cart path up to 15 it all of a sudden got real wide. This puzzled me, so I took a moment to pause and look about. The view as literally breathtaking. My only conclusion was that it had to be a scenic turnout.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Tom Huckaby

Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2006, 01:19:16 PM »
redanman - most here aren't ready to make the effort to do a full 18, one from each architect, so are just giving nominations of worthy holes. So what's the problem?

To that end, Mike B - great additions with the Harbottle holes.  Which would you pick from Cinnabar Hills?  Surely some are worthy nominations, competing with the holes at MB and SR anyway.  Off the top of my head, I'd say:

#2, 4, 7, 8 Lake
#4, 7 Mountain
#3, 6, 9 Canyon

What say you?  What sayeth Pieracci?

TH

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #68 on: January 19, 2006, 02:00:20 PM »
Alrighty, I'll take a stab.  My portfolio of courses played is lacking big-time, but what the heck.

Front Nine
1- Duke (RTJ Sr.) Par 4
2- TPC River Highlands (Weed)
3- Hop Meadow (Geoffrey Cornish) Par 3
4- Doral Gold (Floyd) Par 4
5- Barefoot Resort (Love) Par 4
6- Tobacco Road (Strantz) Par 3
7- Heritage Club (Maples) Par 4
8- Crumpin-Fox (Rulewich) Par5
9- Barefoot Resort (Norman) Par 5

Pretty minor-league, but it's all I can think of now.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #69 on: January 19, 2006, 02:14:59 PM »
Back Nine
10- Barefoot Resort (The Dye Club) Par 4
11- Sugarloaf GC (RTJ Jr.) Par 3
12- TPC Myrtle Beach (Fazio) Par 4
13- egends Hathland (Doak) Par 5
14- Wintonbury Hills (Liddy) Par 4
15- Maryland National GC (Hills) Par 5
16- Shennecossett (Silva hole) Par 4
17- Pawleys Plantation (Nicklaus) Par 3
18- Doral Blue (Wilson) Par 4
Senior Writer, GolfPass

texsport

Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #70 on: January 19, 2006, 02:24:44 PM »
Jeff Brauer's Quarry @ Giants Ridge has several holes worthy of consideration.

#'s 2,6,9,13,14,15 and 18 are all uniquely adapted to the exiting topographical possibilities.

#13 is a most spectacular short par 4.

 

Mike_Cirba

Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #71 on: January 19, 2006, 03:05:11 PM »
Tim Gavrich,

I like some of your par fives.  The 15th at Maryland National is a very good one (actually, I think the par five #7 is superior).

Unfortunately, it's followed by one of the worst golf holes (#16) I've ever seen.

I also like the 9th on Norman's course at Barefoot, with the diagonal creek and the "13th at Augusta" motif.


Michael J. Moss

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #72 on: January 19, 2006, 03:21:39 PM »
Athough our own Tom Doak stated yesterday that he prefers holes 4 and 6 at Kingsley, I love number 5 and rank it among the best par-3s I've ever played. It reminds me of the 14th at Portrush - "Calamity."


Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #73 on: January 19, 2006, 04:12:02 PM »
 Which would you pick from Cinnabar Hills?  
#2, 4, 7, 8 Lake
#4, 7 Mountain
#3, 6, 9 Canyon

What say you?  What sayeth Pieracci?

For Cinnabar Hills, I'll go with:

Canyon 3
Lake 8
Mountain 3 and 4 ... (I don't like #7, too similar to Poppy Ridge's  up-canyon holes ...)
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Tom Huckaby

Re:Doak's test: 1-18, 18 different modern architects
« Reply #74 on: January 19, 2006, 04:20:35 PM »
Mike, good call re all of those and Cinnabar and I concur with the narrowing down.  Re 7 Mtn, well... I just like the tee shot and the central bunker... green is pretty cool also.  I can live with leaving it off though.  3 Mtn is probably a better hole anyway - good call.

TH