[Andy Silis]

Just got my copy of Golf World and in it is an article about how Cypress Point's greens have become infested with nematodes that have left pock marks across their pristine putting surfaces. According to the article, the most extensive damage is on the green of the famed 16th. The article goes on to mention that SF Club had the same problem and ended up stripping and resurfacing it's greens with bent. The problem with this type of solution for Cypress according to the article ( which quotes Pat Gross; Director of the USGA Green Section's Southwest Region ) is that creeping bent grass does not fare particularly well in cool, cloudy climates like the Monterey Peninsula.

Hopefully those of you who are Superintendants in this esteemed "treehouse" will chime in and educate us as to whether this situation is as dire and serious as the article makes it out to be.

[Tom Huckaby]

I'm not a super or anything close to it, but as a resident of the general area I can confirm that nematodes are a constant issue.  Presidio GC had all 18 greens re-done due to this, as did SFGC.  It seems to be very common in San Francisco area.  Last time I was at Cypress, several greens were already effected - it's no surprise at all it has only gotten worse.  Now I know NOTHING about the science or the whys or what fors - I just do know this is a common thing throughout greater NorCal.

TH

[David_Tepper]

Nematodes in the SF Bay Area and along the NorCal coastline are an ongoing problem. I am not sure there is a solution. My understanding is nematodes love poa and a cool, damp climate, but are not so quite so fond of bent grass. The problem is that poa grows so much better than bent in these areas.

The Presdio GC scalped the poa off their greens over the 1999-2000 winter, to replace them with a bent grass supposedly most resistant to nematodes. My understanding is the nematodes are now back at the Presidio with a vengeance.

If anyone has a solution, other than lethally potent chemicals, I would love to hear it.  

[Tom_Doak]

The sunlight and climate factor at SFGC is not all that much different than Cypress Point.  We figured that at best, we were buying the golf course maybe ten years before the Poa annua was back in the greens and the nematodes followed, but maybe by then there would be more effective nematode treatment.

At SFGC we just stripped the top 2-3 inches of sand off the greens and re-floated them -- that's where all the nematodes are.  But those greens were built on native sand so the reconstruction was much easier, basically all we did was to strip away years of topdressing material.  If Cypress Point rebuilds their greens to USGA standards, it will be a much more intensive operation.

This is not just a problem of famous courses ... every club in the Bay Area and down on the Peninsula is at some stage in the cycle of dealing with it.

[Scott Witter]

I found some information about this subject that may prove of further interest to some here.  I pulled this quote from a web site by Greenway Golf.

"The results after one year of working with Greenway Golf and implementing their customized "program" on our greens at the San Francisco Golf Club are:

1)  Total elimination of all moss
2)  Firm greens
3)  Control of thatch
4)  Decreased chemical and fertilizer use
5)  Control and decline of Poa annua populations
6)  Happy membership

My long term expectations have changed since the greens reconstruction.  I now expect to prevent further poa intrusion and maybe its' virtual elimination from the greens. This would almost insure the elimination of the return of the Anguina sp nematode which threatens most if not all of the Poa annua greens on the coast in Northern California."

Robert S. Klinesteker,  Golf Course Superintendent
San Francisco Golf Club

These are fairly strong statements by the superintendent and very encouraging

[Micah Woods]

Scott,

What is the web site for Greenway Golf?

[A.G._Crockett]

Nematodes aren't completely averse to bent; the 16th green at my club in GA has been harmed by them several times over the years, and a number of courses in the SE periodically have problems.  This past summer, our super used the chemical mentioned in the GolfWorld article that goes off the market next year (name escapes me).

The samples he took indicated a very good kill level, but that stuff made you aware that you were breathing it every time you walked onto that green for a couple of months afterward.  Unbelievably longlasting.  I guess the trick is to water the green enough to float the chemical to the layer where the nematodes are, so it stays pretty near the surface for a long time.  It SMELLS lethal! If FEELS lethal in the air.

BTW, I believe he said that it would cost $15,000-$20,000 to treat the entire course, which he did not do.  I'll be very curious to see how that green does next summer.

[David_Tepper]

Scott-

Thanks for the SFGC Super's post. I hope they can keep the poa (and the nematodes that follow) out of the greens there. Given the small amount of play and the deep pockets at SFGC, they (and Cypress Point) stand the best chance of keeping the poa out of their greens of any golf course in NorCal.

As always, time will tell.  As I mentioned in my prior post, the Presidio replanted with bent 5-6 years ago and now the poa & nematodes  are back.  When Lake Merced renovated their greens 8-10 years ago, they made a concerted effort to keep the poa out of their new green surfaces. It worked for a while, but keeping poa out is a tough and, usually losing, battle to fight in this part of the world.

DT  

[Joel_Stewart]

What is the web site for Greenway Golf?

I'm not sure what Greenway Golf is but Olympic, SFGC, Cypress Point and various other golf courses have been funding research from UC Davis for a number of years trying to get a handle on this problem.

Olympic has tried many different ways to control it, and the superintendent has done a real good job at keeping it under control.   The super at CPC probably doesn't want to risk the members getting upset so he keeps the greens cut really short which increases activity and may be under some enviromental constraints on spraying?  Ay Olympic we are only allowed to spray some special stuff twice a year which really helps.  

I'm sure some of the supers would know better details.

[Eric Johnson]

Scott,

What is the web site for Greenway Golf?

Micah,
www.greenwaygolf.net

This is the program we've talked about before.

See you in Harrogate.

[Scott Witter]

Micah,

Sorry for not getting back you..I had a meeting.  I do have to work you know.

Thanks Eric J. for posting Greenways web site.  I have a friend/associate who works with them from time to time and he has nothing but great things to say about the whole group.  They seems to have a very skilled and sharp collection of talented people who know their business.  The program they preach and execute appears to get very good results.

David T. with respect to Presidio, it seems to be essential to maintain the stand of bent and stop the poa encroachment and this leads to increasing your odds against the nematodes, but isn't that the case for everyone...nevertheless, it seems the Greenway folks have a solid approach worth looking into.

[David_Tepper]

Scott -

As an SF Bay Area golfer for 25 years, I certainly hope the Greenways people have created a successful (and cost effective) solution for dealing with poa and the attendant nematode problems.  I hope the super at SFGC is as happy and the SFGC greens are as poa-free 5 years down the road as they are now.

However, I cannot help but think that controlling poa at SFCG, where you have a limited amount of play and relatively few financial pressures, will be a lot easier than at a daily fee course that hosts 50,000 or more rounds a year.  I will be delighted if my assumption is proven wrong!

DT

     

[Scott Witter]

David T.

You make a good point regarding the money involved and the amount of play/pressure on the course, but I can't really comment on that premise, however, the key guy at Greenway Golf is Marc Logan.  He is their director of agronomy and hails out of Australia.  Marc is the one leading the charge with this "new" program and as I say seems to be experiencing much success.

Best of luck, but for your own peace of mind, perhaps you should call Marc Logan directly and have a chat.  I don't know him, but I suspect as a chap from downunder he is probably friendly and happy to share a good story or two.  Check out their web site for their #

[Joel_Stewart]

I hope the super at SFGC is as happy and the SFGC greens are as poa-free 5 years down the road as they are now.
   

Dave:

Is this a true statement?  I heard recently that the poa is coming back much sooner and more agressive then they thought and the club had given up on controlling it.   I didn't play out there in 2005 (I didn't play anywhere in fact) so didn't have firsthand knowledge.

[David_Tepper]

Joel -

I have no idea of the current "poa-status" of the greens at SFGC. I have not played there in 5 years or so. My comment was simply based on the endorsement of the Greenways methodology for controlling poa by the SFGC super on the Greenways website.

The SFGC super is the one saying that they have been able to keep the SFGC greens poa-free, not me.

As I said on my immediately prior post, I imagine every NorCal golfer (and, for sure, every golfer course super) would be very pleased if Greenways has developed a successful, cost-effective and non-toxic methodology for keeping poa (and nematodes) out of bent greens.

DT      

[Carlyle Rood]

At SFGC we just stripped the top 2-3 inches of sand off the greens and re-floated them -- that's where all the nematodes are.

OK.  I'll ask.  What is floating?  I'm inferring that you're just swapping out sand; but, I don't guess that's what you mean.

Carlyle

[Scott Witter]

Carlyle:

Floating refers to a construction process/technique where normally a small piece of construction equipment such as a "Sand Pro" or simply a small tractor is used along with a variation of float boards, boxes, blades...they have many names, and dragged behind the equipment and driven across the surface of the green in a specific manner (with the contour, not against it) to blend/create the surface character/contour desired by the architect/shaper.

You can imagine a green that has been stripped of its sod and as Tom says, the top 2-3 inches of topdressing as well, or a new green being constructed, where it has been filled to grade with sand and roughly compacted and now the sand SURFACE needs to be floated, smoothed out if you will, to achieve the desired final grade.

Hope this helps.

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