“Seven pools, fourteen waterfalls”

[Marty Bonnar]

Was there ever a more damning indictment of the state of golf course architecture?
F.

[Rob Marshall]

Shadow Creek had a phony waterfall. I’ve always liked the look of Sherwood. Looks like a fun course to play.

[Marty Bonnar]

Rob, it does look fun, but that hole is an abomination!
 

[Tommy Williamsen]

Sherwood does have some of those artificial features, but playing it they feel like they fit in. I have played the course both before and after Nicklaus came in and made some changes. It isn't a world beater but it is fun, has excellent elevation changes, some fun par threes, and room to play. I like having five par fives. I can even make a birdie on some of them.

[Marty Bonnar]

Is my memory correct that the area is where they filmed some of the outdoor scenes for M*A*S*H - or have I just made that up?
F.

[Kalen Braley]

Is my memory correct that the area is where they filmed some of the outdoor scenes for M*A*S*H - or have I just made that up?
F.

It would seem so Bonnar.

Sherwood Forest, the setting for the fictional “Robin Hood” and “The Adventures of Robin Hood” films, was recreated here. It was also featured in TV in the “M.A.S.H.” opening helicopter scene and was where “Dukes of Hazard” was shot.

https://progolfnow.com/2020/10/19/zozo-championship-top-10-power-rankings-sherwood-country-club/

[Marty Bonnar]

I was just singing the theme tune. Lyrics I haven’t sung in at least fifteen years, but remembered them perfectly. Ask me what we had for dinner on Friday, though and I’m stumped.
 
Curse you, ageing (and male pattern baldness),
F.

[Steve Lang]

Was there ever a more damning indictment of the state of golf course architecture?
F.

NO!


look at where that hole is, westernmost point all alone, before drainage heads to Lake Sherwood (corrected) off property down to Pacific... how many acres drain to that point?


would you rather the ravine or baranca be filled with scrub trees with people trying to find and play their balls and let high flows erode green edges?


ps  interesting history at the-history-of-lake-sherwood  Lake holds 877,000,000 gallons and the dry lake property got refilled during  heavy rains in 1986

[Marty Bonnar]

Ehm, yes, but would one pool and one waterfall not have sufficed?

[Kalen Braley]

Steve,

Based on Google Maps elevation figures, I think you got that reversed.  The western part of the course is the highest part of the property and the course drains into Lake Sherwood. Given how little it rains in that part of cali the water is likely pumped into the top pond on 15 most of the year.

[MCirba]

They need an eight and ninth pool on the 16th hole about 50 yards long on each side setting up to and along the left/right corners of the green for balls that fail to get through the 12 foot gap between the oaks on the approach so the balls will find a watery grave on both sides up to the fringe. 


Prophetic minds might create a few more waterfalls along a streaming "water feature" wrapping around the side and back fringes of the green.


Strategy will be achieved as players determine the best angle from multiple, various "drop zones" at varied points around the green, which may be advantageous or not any given day depending on hole location, wind direction, sun placement, green firmness, and flag color.

[Steve Lang]

   Kalen,
I sit corrected, I see Lake at 958 ft MSL, subject western impoundment area 1091 ft MSL.    Your point is well taken, but design for storm conditions has to address the big area draining to that area and preventing high velocity of flows and thus erosion is very important.  Multiple pools and dam/waterfalls acting a weirs  probably are feed by pumps during dry weather periods, i.e., most of the time

I've typically done industrial drainage designs using 1 hr-10 yr events for flow conveyance and 24 hr-25 yr events for flow containment bases.   Checking NOAA Atlas 14 (https://hdsc.nws.noaa.gov/hdsc/pfds/pfds_map_cont.html)  I see 1 hr , 10 yr frequency storm is 1.26 inches (range 1.05-1.54 inches),  24 hr , 25 yr frequency storm is 7.97 inches (range 6.74-9.61 inches).   Need to research what CALTRANS uses or others use in CA for developed areas.

[William_G]

just more lush desert golf in California, who cares?

[Kalen Braley]

  Kalen,
I sit corrected, I see Lake at 958 ft MSL, subject western impoundment area 1091 ft MSL.    Your point is well taken, but design for storm conditions has to address the big area draining to that area and preventing erosion is very important.  Multiple pools and dam/waterfalls acting a weirs  probably are feed by pumps during dry weather periods most of the time

Agreed,

And that's likely why they have the largest pond around 2 green, 3, and 4 at the lowest part of the property for when they do get the occasional heavy rain.  I'm guessing 15 is mostly for "style points" and I don't have a problem with that, even if its not Bonnars cup of tea! 

These last two weeks of SC and Sherwood, he's gotta be on the brink of a myocardial infarction, although I certainly hope not! 

[Thomas Dai]

On the one hand it's difficult not to admire the construction work and maintenance effort that has gone into creating such a course.
On the other hand it appears to highlight just about everything the golf-hating lobby dislikes about golf.
atb

[Dan_Callahan]

Looked to me like it's got a lot of fun holes.

[Mark_Fine]

The property could have been developed instead of having a golf course built on it.  It is amazing what money can buy.  I have played the course several times and I like it.  It really does have a lot of fun and dramatic golf holes.  If you think about how much money was spent on the golf course, you wouldn't believe the story about the club's big tree by the clubhouse that is now their logo     Unbelievable how that came about. 

[Tom Bacsanyi]

This reminds me of the "kimonos" scene in Best in Show.

Oh, these have to come... [/color]-...because....[/color]-Counting those... [/color]...you've already packed [/color]six kimonos. [/color]All right, so here is seven.[/color]We're in Philadelphia for 48 hours.[/color]That's seven, so I need,[/color]actually, one more.[/color]How many tea services can you do?[/color]Why are you doing this? I think[/color]we're overpacking. Don't you?[/color]No!

[Kalen Braley]

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other Nicklaus course I'd rather play in a "you can only ever play one of his courses" scenario.  (Not counting Sebonac due to the dual design thing)

[Peter Pallotta]

But would one pool and one waterfall not have sufficed?

That’s a great title for a poem — and first line, Dylan Thomas-like.

“But would one pool and waterfall not have sufficed?”
But would one pool and waterfall not have sufficed?
For in this yellow grave of sand and sea
A calling for colour calls with the wind

[David Druzisky]

I caught a little of the broadcast late yesterday.  No doubt some of those man made water features look a lot better in person and when you aren't looking at them from far above like several were per the high camera angles.

[Matthew Petersen]

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other Nicklaus course I'd rather play in a "you can only ever play one of his courses" scenario.  (Not counting Sebonac due to the dual design thing)

For me, it's almost certainly Castle Pines, but that's really just for personal reasons because I grew up not too far from there and went to the tournament every year, so I've walked the course countless times but never played it.


Beyond that, Muirfield Village has its flaws but it does seem like it has a good mix of strategic and memorable holes (maybe they're mostly memorable because you get to see them 1-2 times every year on TV).


I grew up playing the Nicklaus golf computer game and (of course) Sherwood was a mainstay on that, but I must say 20+ years of exposure to the actual course via TV events hasn't made me any more interested in it. The guys on the NLU podcast last night made me laugh when they threw out a few other courses it reminded them of, because of course it does ... Nicklaus courses of a certain vintage all seem a lot like each other.

[Jeff Schley]

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other Nicklaus course I'd rather play in a "you can only ever play one of his courses" scenario.  (Not counting Sebonac due to the dual design thing)

For me, it's almost certainly Castle Pines, but that's really just for personal reasons because I grew up not too far from there and went to the tournament every year, so I've walked the course countless times but never played it.


Beyond that, Muirfield Village has its flaws but it does seem like it has a good mix of strategic and memorable holes (maybe they're mostly memorable because you get to see them 1-2 times every year on TV).


I grew up playing the Nicklaus golf computer game and (of course) Sherwood was a mainstay on that, but I must say 20+ years of exposure to the actual course via TV events hasn't made me any more interested in it. The guys on the NLU podcast last night made me laugh when they threw out a few other courses it reminded them of, because of course it does ... Nicklaus courses of a certain vintage all seem a lot like each other.

Haven't played Castle Pines, but Mayacama edges Sherwood IMO. I'd really like to see Quivira and Cabo Del Sol as well before committing to one round in my life scenario.