Barnbougle Only "Special" Because It's In Oz?

[ed_getka]

Some great discussion going on in this thread. I look forward to spending a weekend there next year.

[Anthony Butler]

NSW has 13 and 14 and maybe 15.
Royal Adelaide has 3,6,14.
The 3rd at NSW is a poor hole on a terrific course because the tee shot is so bad:

Mike, I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on your first point.

The great holes at NSW include 6, 7, 16 and 17. The 13 & 15 IMHO are overated. My basis for my judgement is the hole has to offer a challenge (albeit different) no matter what the wind direction. 13 with the prevailing spring summer wind (north-east) is a simple 3 wood/9iron.  The angle of the green makes it easy to stop the ball downwind. 14 and 17 are challenging with the wind and almost impossible into the wind.  6 generally plays either with a cross or quartering wind which along with the right to left slope of the green adds to the challenge + it's probably one of the 10 most scenic holes in the world.

On your second point, I totally agree with you. From the back tee on 3, only 10-15% of members can carry a 3-4 wood onto the fairway over the trees. Otherwise have to go right which makes the second shot up the hill almost impossible.

[Mike_Clayton]

Anthony.

I agree 16 is probably close to being a great hole - if I am going to argue 13 is great then I guess you have to include 16.
I'm not so sure about 17 - its awfully intimidating in the wind but it's not in the class of Barnbougle's 7th - or 15 at Kingston Heath,5 at Royal Melbourne or 11 at Yarra Yarra.
7 is a very good hole but in my opinion no more than that - the green can behave in some really odd ways at times because there is so much slope on it.
I think great really has to mean great and there are hundreds of holes in the world as good at 7
6 - great setting and it demands a great shot - I guess that makes it great.
If you replaced 13 with 16 and added 6 that leaves 4 'great holes' - more than all but a couple of courses in the country.

[Anthony Butler]

If you replaced 13 with 16 and added 6 that leaves 4 'great holes' - more than all but a couple of courses in the country.

While we're on par 4s, I'm surprised there isn't more love for the 18th at Commonwealth, which is an much better finishing hole than 18 at KH and IMHO the equivalent of 18 on the East/Composite at RM. It's one of the few holes at CW I like so perhaps that's why it made an impression.

Similar to 18 at RME, the challenge is all at the green, therefore where you place your drive off the tee is off primary importance. Once you get between the fairway bunkers on 18 on a calm day at KH, you have a 9 iron or less in your hand for a reasonably straight-forward shot unless the pin is all the way back.  

I'm going to reverse a trend here on GCA and reserve my opinion on any Barnbougle hole until I play the course during my next trip home to Australia in 2007. .

[Anthony Butler]

.
7 is a very good hole but in my opinion no more than that - the green can behave in some really odd ways at times because there is so much slope on it.

Under Gary Dempsey's direction the green at 7 and 17 at NSWGC have had some of the slope taken out of them. Which makes staying on the green a little easier if you manage to hit it. Because 17 is on the highest part of the course, the prevailing summer wind does it make a little crazy... only 168 yds and the correct shot is a 3 iron back in your stance–starting about 5 yds off the right edge of the green.

[George Pazin]

Nobody can say that the 3rd at RMGC (west), the 4th hole at Shinnecock Hills, 2nd at Oakmont, 7th at Merion make them fall off their chair.

* bold added

HERESY!!

The 2nd at Oakmont is a terrific short par 4, one of the better non-driveable (okay, Bubba could probably do it, but it's not a realistic option) short par 4s around. And I'm not the only one who thinks so, there are a lot of posters on here who've commented favorably on it.

Can't speak as to the others, but if they're in the company of the 2nd at Oakmont, they're in damn good company.

As to the rest of the thread, well, Mark, at least you got people to flesh out their opinions of Banrbougle and SAB quite a bit, so I thank you for that. I dream of playing both someday.