Blackstone C.C. in AZ by Engh

[Jay Flemma]

Played Blackstone today with friends.  We were the only ones on the course all day.  I'll have  longer piece on my website shortly.  The course opened in Sept, is par 72 with a 40-32 split.

You read that correctly.  There is a front 10 and a back 8.  The course does not return to the clubhouse at 9, but at 10.  Thats just the way the land dictated to engh that the best holes were laid out, so go with it, I have no problem.  Sure, the card reads 36-36, but thats a formality not a reality.  Yes, typical of engh, its 5 par-5s and 5 par-3s.

All the things Engh has become famous for are there.  First, yes, the bunkers are muscle bunkers, but they are muscle bunkers on steroids...anywhere from 12 to 15 feet deep with gigantic sidewalls.  The bunkers were not overseeded, so the had the golden halo around them giving them.  Some of the bunkers werre a little too much, particularly 17 where the left half of the green on the par-3 is totally blind.  Right pins, you can see.  Also the bunker on 12 was humongous.

There alsop were the sidewalls to many greens rebounding errant shots back to the green.

Jim had outstanding vegetation to work with...multi armed saguoros, rare palo verde, gorgeous ocotilla, dangerous jumping cholla, more subdued sausage cholla...great plant life.  The course was also much more walkable than most of his other work...maybe only one tough walk between tees.

There were tons of punchbowl greens and great contours.  Greens were fantastic - multi-tiered, multi-club and with loads of undulation.

Routing - terrific with one exception.  First, the holes constantly change direction so the severe wind  makes you constantly check your shot alignment carefully...except for 11, 12, 13 which all run in the same direction, which caused a problem...they also all run directly into the setting sun.  15 runs in the same direction too.  We had trouble tracking the ball in flight.  

Conditioning was good enough to carpet your home...clubhouse will be finished soon.  Food is great too.

Price = really good.  60K as an introductory price, but after they sell enough memberships it'll go up to 75, then 85, capping at 105.  Monthly is tween 450 and 650, depending on when you get in.  No you dont have to own property.  My fave stretch is from 5-8.

I'll post some pix on my website in about fifteen minutes (They'll be up by midnight Mountain Standard Time.)  If you like engh,its worth joining.  If you're a hardcore purist, you might find some of it contrived.  Looked to me like about 300-400,000 cubic yards of earth moved.

Personally, I like Pradera better, but its still a strong effort.  Remember...pradera is a tour de force.  There are great holes here, its just that pradera has even more and even stronger and is even more consistent.  There are a couple moment here a purist might look twice at.  But again...its on par with all the greats of AZ

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Having played and enjoyed Pradera and Lakota Canyon, I look forward to playing Blackstone. Seems like a fun course to play- punchbowl greens,green contours, muscle bunkers, sidewalls, etc.

[Jay Flemma]

yes, its a really fun design.  OPpened minded people will love it.  Again...really impresssed with the vegetation...ocatillo and palo verde and cholla...watch out thoough cause if the jumping cactus gets you, its painful.  That semi blind par three is simlar to 7 at lakota.  he also has one similar to 17 at lakota.  MUCH more walkable.  After walking lakota, I thought I'd have to write out my will.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

And, there's no housing there...........yet.

[Matt_Ward]

Jay:

I have played a very deep listing of Engh designs and I hope to play Blackstone in the spring. For it to be close to the qualities of Pradera is saying quite a lot.

Just for quick reference purposes -- how would you rate / place Blackstone to your other most preferred AZ courses -- private or public? Please be specific as you can -- it really helps.

Thanks ...

[Jay Flemma]

Lots are getting built though.

[mark chalfant]

Jay, thanks for the report I recently played Pradera and thought it was excellent.

[Jay Flemma]

OK...Rank ordering the Engh courses I have Played, it goes like this:

***Caveat*** this is like giving a starving man a menu.  Jim is steak dinners all the way.  Also...this is my PERSONAL preference for the designs.  It's purely subjective Jay Flemma.

Blackstone =

Design:  5.5 stars (out of 7)
Conditioning:  6.5 stars
Value:  6 stars
Natural Setting:  5.5 stars (but 7 stars for the vegetation...I really got a charge out of the Ocotilla and Palo Verde and some good specimen cacti.
Overall:  5.5 stars
Walkability:  Its the most walkable save Pradera...except that schlep up to 16 tee at Pradera.  Ay caramba!  You know...I really think the altitude was what killed me in Colorado.

I have played 7 different enghs...,everything in Col save Snowmass.  I like Pradera and sanctuary better but again that's like comparing chateaubriand with porterhouse with 20 OZ NY strip sirloin with filet mignon.

...and this has little to do with natural setting...this has to do with his great deisgns...stick them in a great setting and well, its no wonder he's a star.  I have pix on the website and more is being posted as we speak.

Then I gotta take a break and hit the pool for some sun and some food!

[Matt_Ward]

Jay:

You completely mis-read my question.

You said Blackstone is among the best "on par" with the top layouts in AZ.

Which ones are above it from the ones you have played and which are below it ?

Thanks ...

[Jay Flemma]

Matt, here's the best I can do, but then I really gotta go get some sun and relaxation at the pool.  We played we-ko-pa, talking stick, apache stronghold and Blackstone this trip.  (I've also played alot of other stuff over time like Troon N, The Boulders and Ventana and sedona - all of which I like.  Here's THIS TRIP:

Design:  Apache, then we-ko-pa, then TSN, then Blackstone
Natural Setting:  we-ko-pa, then Blackstone, then TSN, then apache
Conditioning:  Blackstone, then we-ko-pa and TSN tie, then last apache (read between the lines there)
Overall:  we-ko-pa, then TSN, then blackstone, then apache, but only because the back nine was burned to a crisp.  If the back at apache was in any kind of condition, it would have won for overall.  For me, we-ko-pa and TSn are pretty much even. But you know its tough comparing these very different courses to each other.

For what its worth, I played with two rock musicians who actually know golf very well.  One agreed with me entirely. He had Apache winning the design category and had we-ko-pa narrowly edge TSN for overall...narrowly...like Texas 41 USC 38 at the gun narrow.  The other musician -Blackstone won in both the overall category and design category.  But again...its chateuabriand one day, porterhouse the next, 20 oz NY sirlion the next and filet mignon.

Here's my recommendation.  Book four days and play all four.  It was an epic trip.  Most people live their whole lives and never get to see one course as good as these four, let alone four.  I am grateful and would go back to all...so long as the San Carlos apaches solve the conditioning issue.

[Matt_Ward]

Jay, et al:

I have heard the same comments on the design merits of AS since the cow's came home. That's never been the issue and frankly too much of the AS fanfare is tied to the Doak brand name attached to it.

The issue of the turf simply gets a pass and the San Carlos Apache are literally clueless on what they have and how it can be enhanced.

I would like to know if you compare the turf at Wee-ko-Pa and give it say a certain number on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being Augusta like conditioning -- what is the number you would give the courses you played.

One other thing -- I have played all the courses you mentioned and you left out a number of key private courses in AZ that would need to be included for the purposes of comparisons / contrasts.

[Jay Flemma]

With great respect...the design at Apache IS WORTH EVERY superlative.  There's punchbowls, biarritzes, true redans...basically Tom gave us a western version of NLGA...it's sick...we all agreed.  (That's "sick" in the new sense of the word meaning "good," not "sick" in the old sense of the word meaning "ill."

Its truly Amazing.  It is not just hype tied to Tom because Tom's Tom. The course has an amazing amount of of architectural echo - old design features of Macdonald and The Good Doctor.

I must defer to the more experienced guys on the list for the comparison with other privates for now.

The conditioning at we-ko-pa was about a 6 out of 7.  (I recently switched to a 7 star system from a five star system...just yesterday actually...and have to re-rate it according to that system on my own website), but conditioning at we-ko-pa is not an issue.  Go play it and enjoy it.  Its alot of fun.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Jay

I guess the conditioning at AS would be around a 3. Right?

Steve

[Jay Flemma]

4.5 for the front (out of 7) nice to play biscuit brown...not everyday, but an excellent educational experience, really cool.  I love bump and run and actually do well at it.  Gosh the ball rolled FOREVER and I love when golf is more like snooker...frustrates my opponents and psyches them out.

The back?  Absolute zero for an over all of 2.25 (out of 7)

It can be reclaimed, but I think they need help.  Someone please help them because I think the design deserves a 7...out of 7.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

from golfcoursenews.com

Sheer rock faces, wildly undulating fairways and cavernous bunkers are among the many natural features at the new Blackstone Country Club golf course. The course is one of the many amenities offered by this private, gated country club community within the Vistancia master plan located west of Lake Pleasant in Peoria, Ariz.

Architect James J. Engh of Castle Rock, Colo., created Blackstone Country Club’s private, 18-hole championship course. Engh’s work has resulted in his being named Golf Digest’s first Architect of the Year and a third straight win in the magazine’s annual survey of “America’s Best New Courses.” He is known for being a student of Irish links courses and incorporating the natural landscape into the course.

The Engh team explored the valleys, arroyos and ridges of Blackstone and used Mother Nature’s dramatic features to achieve a course that is playable from the first stroke and yet challenging with every swing, every game. Each hole offers its own distinctive attributes from lakes and serpentine bunkers to nearly hidden greens and towering rock walls.

The tee shot on the par-5 third hole must carry a large arroyo to a fairway split by a solitary pot bunker. Two bunkers, one guarding the landing area and one fronting the green, and a deep swale short of the green make the approach to this narrow putting surface a test of skill.

The eighth hole, known as The Volcano, has an enormous green that falls off on all three sides. However, there’s a great chance to birdie this par 3 because the green is contoured so that most shots roll to the spine in the middle.

The green setting on the par-5, ninth hole, is dramatic. Golfers must stay clear of the arroyo that runs up the right side of the hole and crosses in front of the green, which sits up high in a natural amphitheater with vertical rock faces on three sides.

The 16th hole plays tricks with the mind. As golfers tee off, the fairway extends in front and the green is visible in the distance. However, two outcroppings pinch the fairway, making it appear that there is no room to land the tee shot. In reality, the landing is more than ample while putting may prove to be the great adventure because the green falls off on all sides.

Tucked between the ninth and 10th holes will be the Hacienda, a 30,000-square-foot clubhouse delivering all the upscale amenities worthy of this championship golf course. Construction is under way and will be completed in late 2006. Until then, a temporary clubhouse will begin operation.