Strategy without penality...

[Scott Cannon]

%...thanks

[Tyler Kearns]

I would say that any hole where you hit driver it is not strategic...unless the strategy is to drive the green.  

John,

Help me out, this blanket statement just doesn't ring true in my head. Picture the generic strategic hole, dogleg left, guarded by a left hand side fairway bunker at the turning point, and green is protected by right hand side bunker. If I decide to try the heroic carry of 260 yards with my driver, affording me a much better angle into the green, how is that not a strategic decision?

TK

[Andy Scanlon]

I may be dense, but isn't a strategy a method or plan for completing an objective?  Isn't the ultimate objective of every golf hole to get the ball in the cup that is cut into the green?  With that in mind, wouldn't any method or plan one employs to get one's ball into the hole necessarily constitue one being strategic?  Perhaps I am missing the premise of this thread?

[Brian Noser]

John,

I forgot some have not played this great hole. but the ob is in play for a drive played to far left it is kind of a slight dog leg. but i do not think it has to be hit hard to get ob. but i do not think 3 wood is the play the fairway is 70 somthing yard wide. to hit 3 wood for stratgey would not make any sense.

[Craig Disher]

John,  Your computations check with mine although I used the sin function and worked thru it that way.

A drive 5 degrees off line will put the ball 26 yards off center.

[Craig Disher]

Craig

I am talking of the golfer's strategy, not the course's (and, as we all know, I do not believe that inanimate objects such as golf courses can be "strategic.").  The example you give expresses this perfectly--do you as player choose the strategy of hitting the ball shorter and straighter with a 3-wood or longer and crookeder with a driver?  If there are no intervening features, the strategy is a no-brainer--hit the driver, stupid!

PS--I forget my trigonometry.  How much closer to the pin would a 300 yard drive 15 degrees off line be than a 270 yard 3 wood hit dead straight?  What's the formula?  I really would like to know.  Thanks.

Rich,
Here's the rub. A 300 yard drive 15 degrees off line buys you very little. On a 400 yard hole, the approach from the 300 yard wayward drive is 134 yards. The approach from a 270-yard straight 3-wood is 130. But if the 3-sigma event on your drives is a 15-degree deflection, hit the driver every time. And of course we're talking about a non-strategic hole with infinite width and no complexity around the green.

[mike_malone]

 John,

      I chose the word "fun" on purpose. I then defined what "fun" is for me--thinking before the shot and dealing with a dilemma after a mishit. You may have fun when you need to retee it after a mishit ,if so, more power to you. Defining fun as avoiding pain may be okay for you , but not for me.

    A friend of mine works for a major company headquarted in Philly. They have had a corporate membership at Galloway, which I hear is a very good but difficult course. He said they have shifted their membership to Hidden Creek which is a very good but less punishing course. He said he expected to bring more guests there because it would not be as much of a "slog" for the guests.

      Several of my high handicap friends love Hidden Creek because they feel they can compete better against the low handicappers. I have no idea if this is correct, but they feel that way. They have more fun because they aren't adding strokes to their scorecards without hitting the ball!

     

[John Kavanaugh]

No matter how great the architecture it is no fun to get your ass eaten alive....or maybe that is just urban legend.

[Doug Siebert]

John,

Even if you've got a really wide fairway and no advantage for being on one side or the other, it still might not be smart to hit it as hard as you can.  Say I've got a 480 yard par 4.  If I take a normal swing and catch it well, maybe it goes 300 yards or so, leaving me 180.  If I miss it somewhat, it might go 260, leaving me 220 which is still an iron so its fine (as a 6 I don't expect to average 4.0 on a 480 yard hole no matter how wide open it is)  Now if I tried to really bust it, if I pull it off say I hit 330 so I'm at 150 instead of 180, which isn't really worth it in my book.  Especially since that big ass swing brings in some really ugly hits way off the heel or toe that might go more like 210, leaving me out of range to reach the green at all!  And I'm ignoring the offline stuff in this analysis, and the harder swing obviously can bring me more offline which puts me even further from the hole.

Now maybe that applies less if the hole is 380 instead of 480, but even then I can't drive the green no matter what I do, and being 50 yards intead of 80 isn't a particular advantage either so again why should I try to bust it to all hell just because I've got enough room to handle some really crazy offline shots?

Even holes without strategy have strategy for players who aren't good enough to hit every shot nearly perfect like a top pro can.  Maybe its worth it to Tiger and Phil to try to really bust one because they are good enough to get that extra 30 yards most of the time, and good enough to take advantage of that 30 yard shorter short into the green most of the time.

Not trying to argue a wide open hole without strategy is good, mind you, but unfortunately most of us don't have Mucci's connections on every great course in the country, so we do have these types of dilemmas.