Royal Porthcawl an Open venue?

[Sean_A]

This weekend I had a conversation with a chap who claims that the R&A invited Royal Porthcawl to be considered for a future Open.  Apparently, Porthcawl turned down the offer of consideration.

Aside from logistical issues (which I believe can be worked out), do folks think that Royal Porthcawl, with a bit of R&A twitching, is worthy of an Open?

Ciao

Sean

[JESII]

Sean,

I've never played Royal Porthcrawl but I found the word worthy[/b] interesting in your question. Do you mean worthy in the sense of quality/difficulty? Or in its history? Or in some other way?

[Thomas_Brown]

I think the course would be too short for a modern ball Open.
Also, spectator traffic on 18 would be a mess.

[JESII]

Does Wales have any links courses on par with Royal Porthcrawl?

From GD International rankings for referrence to other highly acclaimed Welsh courses.
Wales (161)
1. Royal Porthcawl G.C., Porthcawl
2. Royal St. David's G.C., Harlech
3. Aberdovey G.C., Aberdovey
4. Tenby G.C., Tenby
5. Conwy G.C., Conwy
6. Pyle and Kenfig G.C., Kenfig
7. Marriott St. Pierre Hotel and C.C. (Old), Chepstow
8. Pennard G.C., Southgate
9. Nefyn & District G.C., Pwllheli
10. Ashburnham G.C., Burry Port

If the answer to the first question is no, would the R&A consider a less worthy[/b] venue for its Open simply to be in Wales?

[Matt_Ward]

Sean:

I thoroughly enjoyed my time at Royal Porthcawl but hosting The Open -- not a chance UNLESS they were able to add 300-400 yards to the card.

The first hole is nothing more than a long par-3 for guys of Tiger's ability.

You also have logisitical issues with gallery traffic through the property but the wherewithal of the world's best to simply overpower the layout would need to be addressed. Likely the layout would also have to consider the possibility of added bunkers in the power alleys to keep the boys honest.

I like Royal Porthcawl immensely and would certainly recommend it for anyone traveling through Wales but The Open requires a significant adjustment and I don't know if the membership would favor such a "tweaking" of their layout for such a short window of fame. Sometimes a bargain with the devil can mean the devil winning a great deal more than what you thought originally.

[Bill_McBride]

I played a round at Porthcawl in July 2004 in very benign conditions - low rough, no wind.  It was one of the finest driving courses I've ever been fortunate to play, some of the greatest fairway bunkering combined with hillsides and contours possible.  The greenside bunkering was excellent.  There was certainly room to push a few tees back.

If there's wind and the rough's up, it could be a great Open.  If not, it would be a good Open.  I question there's enough room for the tented village and all those activities.

One only needs to look back at the Walker Cup at Porthcawl to see how tough and frustrating Porthcawl could play.  I don't believe Tiger Woods won a match, could be wrong, know he lost his last.  The wind blew, the rough was deep hay.  Downing Gray of Pensacola Country Club was the U.S. captain, and has told me Porthcawl was an absolute bear.

I think facilities and lodging would be bigger problems than the golf course.

[David_Tepper]

I have heard that the East Course at Saunton is also a possible Open site in that part of the UK. With a 2nd 18 hole course, it would have plenty of room for the tented village, media trucks, parking, practice range, etc.

I have not played either Porthcawl or Saunton. Would Saunton be more of a challenge for the pros than Porthcawl?

[Mark_F]

Sean,

No doubt Porthcawl turned down the 'opportunity' precisely because they don't want some R&A clown altering the place.

But, if it did host the Open, can you imagine what the green fee would go up to?  It's bad enough now...

I don't think it would be too short if they turned 8 and 12, at least, into par fours.  When you have to hit a 4-iron into the 110 metre 7th through driving wind and rain, what more do you need?

[Bill_McBride]

Mark, that little 7th hole is a beautiful thing!  A back right pin just behind those pinching mounds, in a 3-club wind right to left (prevailing) wind, would pucker one's backside.

It would be great fun to stand behind the 5th (par 5, right?) and watch the big guys hitting three wood seconds with the wind from the right and the wall five paces left of the green!

#17 would no doubt be an even greater candidate to become a par 4, although perhaps the tee could be moved back.  As I recall, there was another fairway directly behind the tee, which is kind of out in the middle of things.  The routing got a bit dodgy there.  But the tee shot up onto the plateau with the daunting fairway bunkers might be one of the best on the course.

I also loved the other little par 3 (#13?) with the giant deep bunkers surrounding it.  It would also be formidable in the wind, with the offshore wind blowing across the tee shot.

Just thinking about the holes on that course reminds me how much I enjoyed it.  I think the ocean is in view on every hole except maybe the bottom of the fairway on #8 and #9.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Tiger hated the place when he played it in the Walker Cup.  His views may have changed. I think it is a wonderful course - but it is not capable of containing huimans of Tiger's ability.

[Matt_Ward]

Sean, et al:

Here's what many people fail to comprehend. The 1st at Porthcawl is simply a long par-3. The 2nd and 3rd holes are grand par-4's -- for the non-world class golfer -- each of the two mentioned holes would need no less than 40-50 yards to make the top players really grind to even some degree. With the course playing its traditional firm and fast it's very easy for players now to run balls out a good ways down the fairway.

Keep in mind a few other things -- would the par-5 4th be played as it is -- or would it be altered to play as a par-4?

The 18th is a fun closing hole -- for members type play. It would need a bit of "added character" to conclude the world's grandest event IMHO.

I'd like to see The Open come to Wales but the natue of Porthcawl to what one sees with Royal Liverpool today is much wider than many might opine.

[Lloyd_Cole]

Interesting concept given that Porthcawl is not technically a links course..

[Bill_McBride]

Lloyd - why is Royal Porthcawl technically not a links course?

[Mark_F]

Matt,

I think an Open at Porthcawl would be great fun.

I don't buy the first as a par three - surely it's a par 3 1/2?

I bet the fourth would play closer to it's par than a lot of other  par fives on the Open rota.  Are you telling me today's prima donna pros are gonna be happy taking on an OB twice on the same hole without needing a long comfort stop somewhere before the next tee?

I think not.

Imagine Robert Allenby's reaction.  That would be worth the price of admission alone.

What more added character does the 18th need other than a teeshot downhill straight towards the glrious swelling blue ocean?

Pamela Anderson practicing her backstroke naked?

And you know how much pros hate those fall-away greens.  Especially when they are on three levels.

[Matt_Ward]

Sean:

We agree on one thing -- leave Porthcawl alone.  

Mark F:

Porthcawl needs added length and some repositioning of bunkers in the drive zones to handle the world's best. I love the layout and would love to see Wales host The Open. Porthcawl could do it but not as the course is presently constituted and I am not advocating that it change what it has now for such a one-time event.

[Bill_McBride]

Sean, you must have been drinking heavily when you played Porthcawl!  

There is absolutely nothing in common between Pennard and Porthcawl when it comes to elevation above the sea and beach.  Porthcawl is perhaps elevated 15' where Pennard is at least 600', or so it appeared from the 6th fairway looking down toward the ocean.  Compared to Pennard, Porthcawl is right on the beach!

Isn't Pennard known as "The Links in the Sky?"

And I felt a linksy feeling about Porthcawl throughout, even over there at little #7 which I guess is the farthest point away from the clubhouse.  

[Lloyd_Cole]

Lloyd - why is Royal Porthcawl technically not a links course?

Bill
To Quote Jim Finnegan - because the land was not reclaimed from the sea. I will agree ahead of time that the distinction is somewhat pedantic, but the course, to me, played somethere between a links and a downland course in feel, the closer to the water the more 'linksy'.

[Bill_McBride]

Can't disagree with that interpretation, Lloyd, although I would always think of Porthcawl as a links rather than a part-links or quasi-links, etc.!

[Marc Haring]

I understand that Donald Steele has created a master plan to improve Porthcawl to Open standard. I believe it involved making the 17th the last hole and of course #18 would become the 1st.

At the moment they are having many problems with their irrigation water. For the third time their borehole has become contaminated with seawater, which I believe was the problem with the greens for the Walker Cup. I understand from David Ward their Superintendent, that they are attempting to sink another bore hole up at the far end of the course (#7) to try and get a more permanent remedy.

I love the par threes at Porthcawl, not only #7 but there are a few others that made an impression as well. #4 had a crazy green and both 11 and 14 were great little one shotters. There were one or two slightly weak holes though (IMHO) like 13 and frankly 17 and 18 weren’t that inspiring to me, while # 6 had lost the strategy set up by the right to left angled green by the pernicious rough that had developed right up the left side of the hole but I am being picky. It’s a joyous course for half decent golfers but for the elite, I’m not so sure.