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Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« on: January 06, 2006, 09:50:28 AM »
John Kavanaugh's welcome wagon challenges a newbie to pick a camp.  He explains his thusly:  "I am in the modern architect supporter can't get enough access to classic courses camp."

In one sentence, define your camp.

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

John Kavanaugh

Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2006, 09:52:45 AM »
Boge,

What's yours...lets see how honest people can be, not that I would call anybody out..you know me guy.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2006, 09:54:46 AM by John Kavanaugh »

Tom Huckaby

Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2006, 09:54:17 AM »
OK, just so you don't think I'm ducking this, here's what I said in the other thread:

Put me in the don't give a rat's ass about any architect living or dead just love to play the game and can't get enough access to great courses classic or non-classic and hell I'll play anywhere great or non-great camp.

I wonder if I'll have anyone here to watch my back....

 ;D

TH

ps - JK - being you are the judge of all things, was I honest?

Kyle Harris

Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2006, 09:56:36 AM »
Personally, I'm in the John Cougar camp...

John Mellan just never did it for me.  ;)

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2006, 09:58:24 AM »
John Waters.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2006, 09:59:19 AM »
I do know you guy and anticipated the question.  Problem is I'm not a credo kind of guy.  I'm just here to learn.  Hey, that's it!

"I'm just here to learn.''

Or maybe, "There is no 'it'."

Are you going to let me get away with that?

Mike

Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Tom Huckaby

Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2006, 10:00:04 AM »
I like Kyle's answer.  So given I am so into college football, put me in the Walter Camp.

 ;D

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2006, 10:00:08 AM »
Huck,

Just shorten it to the prostitute camp.

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

John Kavanaugh

Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2006, 10:00:16 AM »
OK, just so you don't think I'm ducking this, here's what I said in the other thread:

Put me in the don't give a rat's ass about any architect living or dead just love to play the game and can't get enough access to great courses classic or non-classic and hell I'll play anywhere great or non-great camp.

I wonder if I'll have anyone here to watch my back....

 ;D

TH

ps - JK - being you are the judge of all things, was I honest?

I think you are a little more concerned with the modern architects liking you than you let on...but hell, everybody loves you anyway.  You are not telling the truth when you say you don't give a rat's ass about architects living or dead...I'm sure I could find something in the Pasatiempo threads to out your love of the good doctor..

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2006, 10:01:53 AM »
I'm in Tom Huckaby's camp; I can't get enough of seeing new courses.  One of the great, great pleasures in my life is the anticipation of seeing a new place to play the game.  I have favorites among the GCA's, of course, and less-favorite as well, but just love the whole thing.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2006, 10:02:30 AM »
 I'm in the "golf courses should be fun " camp.

        For me, this means 1) before I hit a shot I am challenged to make decisions  about where to aim or what type of shot to hit and 2) after I hit the shot I have a chance to hit another one. I don't mind being penalized for a horrible shot but the fun goes down quickly when a near miss leads to a penalty stroke.

   Some want to create "penal" vs. "strategic" camps but I find that too polarizing. But, at the extremes I don't find very penal courses as fun as very strategic ones.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2006, 10:06:31 AM by mayday_malone »
AKA Mayday

Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2006, 10:03:44 AM »
OK, just so you don't think I'm ducking this, here's what I said in the other thread:

Put me in the don't give a rat's ass about any architect living or dead just love to play the game and can't get enough access to great courses classic or non-classic and hell I'll play anywhere great or non-great camp.

I wonder if I'll have anyone here to watch my back....

 ;D

TH

ps - JK - being you are the judge of all things, was I honest?

For as much as I love architecture and really thinking critically about a course, I too just LOVE to get out there and bang it around...anywhere, anytime.  Just a "junky" at heart...

Guess I got your back on this one, TH.
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Tom Huckaby

Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2006, 10:08:51 AM »
Well Mr. Hendren, I never.  I mean I am just shocked and appalled.   ;D

JK: well hell, I want EVERYONE to like me, and a few modern architects participate on this site.  So I guess you got me there.  But in terms of how this relates to playing the game, golf course architecture, hell GOLF...

And I guess you got me about MacKenzie.  If I had to pick an architect to favor, that would be the one.  But my point is I don't care about favoring ANY architect really.  That question just gets asked so damn much here I just figured over they years I had to give an answer.

So here's my reconstituted statement, after going through the Jk filter (which I do appreciate, btw):

Put me in the don't give a rat's ass about who the architect is of a golf course - living or dead - but if you ask me as a concept I will favor MacKenzie, just to be polite - but the bottom line is I just love to play the game and can't get enough access to great courses classic or non-classic and hell I'll play anywhere great or non-great camp.

Or we could just use what Mike suggested.

 ;D


TH

ps - thanks E and thanks AGC - I think we'll have the coolest camp - the rest of these guys are geeks.   ;)
« Last Edit: January 06, 2006, 10:09:45 AM by Tom Huckaby »

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2006, 10:47:11 AM »
I'm in the "I don't like architorture" camp. Golf architecture should be fun and challenging but not difficult for the average golfer just for the sake of difficulty- too many forced carries, for example.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Eric Franzen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2006, 10:52:18 AM »
I'm in Tom Huckaby's camp; I can't get enough of seeing new courses.  One of the great, great pleasures in my life is the anticipation of seeing a new place to play the game.  I have favorites among the GCA's, of course, and less-favorite as well, but just love the whole thing.

Count me in here, boys.

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2006, 10:56:04 AM »
I'm in the "I call 'em as I see 'em" camp. Given a choice, I would play a great classic over a great modern. But they are only great if I think they are great. For example, Royal Worlington and Newmarket ain't great no matter what Bernard Darwin or Tom Doak say.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2006, 10:57:12 AM by John Cullum »
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2006, 11:11:45 AM »
I reckon I am in the Mayday camp.  Courses should be fun no matter old or new dead or alive architect.

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

John Kavanaugh

Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2006, 11:15:22 AM »
I'm in the "golf courses should be fun " camp.

        For me, this means 1) before I hit a shot I am challenged to make decisions  about where to aim or what type of shot to hit and 2) after I hit the shot I have a chance to hit another one. I don't mind being penalized for a horrible shot but the fun goes down quickly when a near miss leads to a penalty stroke.

   Some want to create "penal" vs. "strategic" camps but I find that too polarizing. But, at the extremes I don't find very penal courses as fun as very strategic ones.

One of my problems with the "fun" camp is that my mind is too weak to give a damn about strategy without penality..

ForkaB

Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2006, 11:25:51 AM »
1.  Good Morning Campers!
     I'm your Uncle Richard
     and I'll welcome you to Scotland's Holiday Camp!
     The camp with a difference
     Never mind the weather
     when you come to Scotland
     the Holiday's forever!

2.  A golf hole is a golf hole is a golf hole

3.  Bunkers with Victoria's Secret style shaping and edging are a waste of time and money and add nothing to architecture

4.   _____________ (fill in the blank with your favorite golden age or modern age architect) is vastly overrated.

5.    _____________ (fill in the blank with any non-favored modern or golden age architect) is vastly underrated

6.  Time will tell for GCA.  For any course built after WWII, it is far too early to tell

7.  Maintenance and stewardship is far more important than original design to the "greatness" of any golf course

8.  I am sure there are more...... :)

« Last Edit: January 06, 2006, 11:26:49 AM by Rich Goodale »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2006, 11:40:31 AM »
John

I didn't throw eggs at your camp.  Don't you have to break up a union or something?  Or is your shop already stewardless?

I admit that part of the fun camp is fewer harsh penalty holes.  I am getting to that stage in life where I don't want to look for balls.  I am content with a poor angle approach off a poor drive.  The course must be firm for my fun philosophy to prevail.  Mind you, The Road is one of the funnest courses I have ever played and there are some harsh penalties without firm conditions.  Maybe the first part of this paragraph is rubbish.

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Scott Cannon

Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2006, 12:10:17 PM »
Sorry, cant do it in one sentence.
As a "Newbie" I must admit that the older designers employed (in my opinion) a subtler approach which puts me in their camp. For example, Perry Maxwell would build a dogleg right fairway that slopes left, and with the prevailing wind blowing to the left. The hole has no fairway bunkers On the other hand, Mr. Fazio builds high lip fairway bunkers on both sides of the dogleg. They are beautiful but there is nothing subtle, you either seam your tee shot, or chip out of the bunkers. With the Maxwell example, do you hit 3 wood, or maybe a cut, or go for it with a high draw and hope you don’t block it into the trees, or over hook it?
Another example is the bunkering Thomas employed at LA North. Lots of large, deep greenside bunkers that aren't subtle…or are they. Most aren't into the green, but short or the green, and are used to confuse the visual of distance.
Yea I am a Tillinghast fan, and have played some of his courses (Both Winged Foots, Baltimore CC, Bethpage, Quaker Ridge) and will admit that he’s an in your face guy, but overall, the old guys make you think more.
I have played Austin Golf Club many times, and Mr.Crenshaw/Coore are one of the best at making the golfer second guess his club choice because of subtle design techniques, which I think is and “Old School” attribute.


Kyle Harris

Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2006, 12:11:13 PM »
1.  Good Morning Campers!
     I'm your Uncle Richard
     and I'll welcome you to Scotland's Holiday Camp!
     The camp with a difference
     Never mind the weather
     when you come to Scotland
     the Holiday's forever!

2.  A golf hole is a golf hole is a golf hole

3.  Bunkers with Victoria's Secret style shaping and edging are a waste of time and money and add nothing to architecture

4.   _____________ (fill in the blank with your favorite golden age or modern age architect) is vastly overrated.

5.    _____________ (fill in the blank with any non-favored modern or golden age architect) is vastly underrated

6.  Time will tell for GCA.  For any course built after WWII, it is far too early to tell

7.  Maintenance and stewardship is far more important than original design to the "greatness" of any golf course

8.  I am sure there are more...... :)



We're not gonna take it...

ForkaB

Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2006, 12:19:40 PM »

We're not gonna take it...

You are forgiven......

redanman

Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2006, 12:22:32 PM »
"I don't hit balls, where's the first tee" camp?

Peter Pallotta

Re:Happy Campers: What's Your Credo?
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2006, 12:37:30 PM »
"I'd play golf in a parking lot, but St. Andrews would be nice"

P