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Jason Topp

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Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« on: January 06, 2006, 12:17:11 AM »
I just got back from Australia.  It was a wonderful family trip with some golf mixed in.  I played Barnbougle Dunes, Kingston Heath, Royal Melbourne West, Woodlands, nine holes at Newcastle with Phillip Gawith (long story to follow in a future thread) and New South Wales.

Most of these courses have been thoroughly discussed and extensive pictures have been posted.  I thought I would comment on impressions I had that either were surprises or impressions I do not recall being discussed extensively.  I enjoyed each course very much, so any critical comments should be taken within that context.

Phillip covered much of the same ground I did and will be able to provide more information when he returns from New Zealand.

With respect to Barnbougle, I played it on an extremely windy day - 30-40 knots, which they told me in the clubhouse was 50-60 miles per hour.  My understanding is that such a wind happens often.  I suggest that anyone travelling to Barnbougle plan on multiple days in hopes of experiencing differing wind conditions.

From photographs, I was concerned that the course would be overly tight.  It is not.  The most photographed holes are in the larger dunes on the course (3-7) and their short length allows for some narrowness to be reasonable.  The remainder of the course has very wide fairways.

You fight the wind on the first four holes and then reach a wonderful respite in this shack before walking along the coast to the 5th:



Generally, I thought the Australian holes I played had an inverse length/quality ratio.  The best holes were par threes or short par fours.  Par fives were less unique and memorable.  That impression was particularly true at Barnbougle.  

The 5th is a terrific downwind 200 meter par three with a safe shot left punished by a difficult chip downhill and over a tier, while the more intimidating line to the right allows one to approach the hole up the slope:



The 7th was one of the best of the trip.  From 98 meters I played a 6 iron the first time and a 4 iron the second:



Similarly, the 13th was a terrific mid length par three with a stillwell park imspired green and I enjoyed the 16th with a dune blocking the wind off the sea, making it difficult to judge where to hit your tee shot.

The green contours were superb.  I found nearly every putt to have an interesting slope while not detracting into a mickey mouse type challenge.  Because of the wind, some putts broke uphill slightly.  Below is an example of the green contours - the sideways horseshoe 4th green.  Not only is the green interesting to putt, its contours add to the decision mix off the tee.  The hole is under 300 yards and in light or moderate winds would provide many strategic options.  The green shows the advantage of staying right off the tee to a back pin, which leaves either a blind shot short of a huge bunker or a putt if one carries the bunker:



Because of the wind, the short par fours (4 and 12) were full drivers and 4 irons for me.  Not much thinking was required in those conditions.

In all I thought the course was outstanding.  I will be interested to see where it moves in rankings.  I believe Golf Magazine had it 41st in the world.  I do not have enough experience with top courses to determine the accuracy of that view but it is certainly a wonderful course in a great setting.  Others have covered the strengths of the course.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=18329;start=msg325301#msg325301

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/barnbouglemm.html

I would definitely recommend that anyone travelling to Australia make the effort to play Barnbougle.  Despite this few, I have a few humble criticisms:

     I thought the par fives were the weakest part of the course.  The first is a wide open hole with a bunker about 100 yards short and from the preferred right side for an approach.  A straightforward and appropriate opening hole, particularly because I do not recall seeing a practice range.  

    The eleventh is the best of the bunch with a mid-fairway bunker protecting the tee shot and a great sharp slope protecting the left edge of the green.  

    The fourteenth was a pretty wide open hole.  There were a series of bunkers guarding the right side of the fairway at an angle similar to those crossing the fairway at Bethpage Black.  The problem with the bunkers was that I saw almost no advantage to aggressiveness with the bunkers.  The green was accessible from the left side of the wide fairway and there was no distance advantage to going right.

    One other feature of the course I felt did not work well was the split fairway 8th.  The hole features a more narrow (and higher) left side and a wider right side and is 446 meters downwind from the back tee and 417 meters from the next set up.  I tried both fairways and could see little or no reward in going left.  The second shot seemed at a worse angle and needed to carry a significant amount of broken ground to get to the green.

Tyler Kearns

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Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2006, 12:51:25 AM »
Jason,

Thanks for your thoughts, I'll be interested to compare them to my own when I tee it up there next month. I'm trying to play it over 2-3 days, and while I enjoy a good breeze, I could do without the hurricane you experienced.

TK

RJ_Daley

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Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2006, 12:58:50 AM »
NIce photos, Jason.

From 98 meters, that's about 107 yards, you hit 6I and 4I?  Can you tell us what the tee ball outcomes were?  

I wonder if such 40-50mph winds often aren't just a wee bit beyond the pale.  I know everyone likes to say how they love the wind and all, but if a course sees frequent or predominant winds sustained (not gusts) over 40, well... :-\
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Matthew Mollica

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2006, 07:52:45 AM »
The wind can get really strong down there.

It usually comes from the west, and as Jason says, acts as a headwind for the first four holes, and also for the short par 3 7th. The course has been designed with prevailing wind strength and direction in mind.

I've played the course around 8 times in the last 15 months,and hit everything from SW to 3iron to that awesome little par 3 7th.  

On one day, 52* wedge was all we needed to get the second shot hole on 8!

Although the wind can come from the opposite direction, I've never played it in such conditions.

I'd love to, as it means that the tee shot on 4 and 12 really brings the green into frame!

Jason, simply from a personal perspective, did you read the course review I penned for GCA, prior to your trip? Did it help you at all on the way around Barnbougle?

Also, I'm not sure I can agree that the course is narrow in many partd at all, particularly the first 4. Three is reeealy wide, and the valley floor on 4 is around 60m wide. Ironically, the only time I feel a hole tighten is 14, which you thought was wide open!

MM
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

David_Elvins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2006, 08:28:52 AM »
The wind there is an interesting one.

THe four rounds i have played there it has been a 3 club easterly, a 1-2 club westerly, a  slight northerly and a still day.

There definetly can be some bad days (especially in the spring,) but i suspect they arent as prevalent as some make out.

Matthew,
I can assure you that the strategy on 4 works well even with a westerly wind.. Even into a 1-2 club wind the bunker can be carried off the tee.
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2006, 11:21:22 AM »
Dick:

I found the bunker both times.  I then hit the bunker shot over the green both times and then got up and down for bogey.

I think that sort of wind occurs often and I know Phillip had a similar wind on one of the days he was there.  They said it was a strong wind but that it was not the strongest they get.  It was much lighter the day before and the day after I played, but I was involved in other family activities.

Matthew:

Your review is terrific, probably the best introduction to a course I have ever read.  I also enjoyed the website that had been referenced here where a guy described his entire round in calm conditions.  I read both about 5 times before getting to the course.  Once there I did not have them with me, but felt like I had a pretty good idea of what the holes required.

You also may be right about the width of 4.  My point is that there is plenty of width on the course that was contrary to the impression I had from the pictures I had seen.

Tyler - I really enjoyed the course, even in the hurricane.  I'm an 8 handicap and set a goal of cracking 100 the second round, which I barely did with a 97.  I just enjoyed the challenge of playing unique shots in the wind.

One other comment - the bunker and long grass protecting the right side of five is 50 yards short of the green.  Thus the intimidation factor is more visual than actually tight.  I hit 5 and 7 irons to the green downwind.

Matthew Mollica

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2006, 04:01:09 PM »
The wind there is an interesting one.

THe four rounds i have played there it has been a 3 club easterly, a 1-2 club westerly, a  slight northerly and a still day.

There definetly can be some bad days (especially in the spring,) but i suspect they arent as prevalent as some make out.

Matthew,
I can assure you that the strategy on 4 works well even with a westerly wind.. Even into a 1-2 club wind the bunker can be carried off the tee.


Dave, I know the bunker on 4 can be cleared even into a 1-2 club wind. I drove the green into such a wind once!  ;D

What time of the year were you there, and do you feel wind strength and direction varies with the seasons at all?

I don't think there's any dispute now that a westerly is the predominant breeze, speaking to guys on the ground there.

Which holes played different to how you imagined, with no wind? #5 must have been more difficult into it. 8 would have been similarly tough!

MM
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2006, 09:21:41 AM »
They told us when we started building the course that the strong winds were out of the west 95% of the time, and in the course of construction we only saw one day when they blew strongly from the east.  However, the wind blew from the east when we were there a year ago December, and I've talked to others who played it in the easterly ... so maybe it's 85-90% westerly.

Michael Clayton says it is possibly more fun with the easterly wind:  you had a chance to drive the fourth and twelfth, you had a chance to reach the 17th and 18th, but holes like 5 and 6 and 10 and 13 really come alive.

Jason:  If you are a reasonably long hitter and it's downwind then you are right, there's no reason to mess with the left fairway on the 8th.  However, we put it there because in calm conditions there are plenty of players who can only reach the green in two if they take the direct route to the left ... they can't get up the hill from low and right.  Also, that area really had to be grassed anyway to give the hole enough width that you could find the ball.

Sean Walsh

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Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2006, 10:22:41 PM »
Re 4 and 12  

I played both with a slight easterly behind us and could reach 4 (playing from the second back tees).  Trying to do so is frought (sic)with danger though.  

A playing partner put his drive onto the 12th green with a very slight tail wind.  approx 1-2 feet from a hole in one.

Re the 8th I played it twice in still conditions and with Driver 5W was just short of the green both times from the right half of the fairway.  At the time I would have guessed that the left half would aid you by about 1-2 clubs.

Philip Gawith

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Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2006, 01:56:37 PM »
I played three rounds and walked a fourth. On the first day it was still am, and breezy pm. On the second day, it was very windy am, and violently windy pm (hence my decision to walk!). The reason I walked a fourth round was in order to go round with Matthew Goggin who had just won his PGA tour card again and gone the last 36 holes in one of the 3 main Aussie tournaments in about 127 - so he can play. But I am sure he won't mind me saying that when the wind is violent, even the best are made to look like monkeys. On the 15th he hit two drivers and did not reach the green - and that hole is not even 400 yards, as I recall.

As Jason points out, you want to be there long enough not to have the experience devalued by extreme weather - and wind of the sort he had (and I witnessed) is too difficult to really enjoy the experience. On that same short 7th I played a wedge in still weather and a 6 iron the next morning.

Overall, I thought it was a magical destination and great course - highly recommended. It has a very relaxed ambience, in keeping with public access - I would assume it must be a bit like very early days Bandon, except that you don't only find golf missionaries, but also a healthy compliment of local non-golfers who are delighted to have somewhere nice to hang out! Incidentally, the day rate of A$100 is fantastic value.

As Jason's pictures show, it definitely has a touch of Ireland about it - especially the first nine which feels like Waterville, or maybe Rosapenna.

I agree with Jason that the par 5's are the weak points, though I quite like the first starting in the dunes, and then opening out; and I think the 14th is better than the 11th - the green is more prominent and appealing to the eye.

The holes I liked most were the short two-shotters (4 and 12), some of the longer two-shotters - 6 and 8, and 15,17 and 18. On a still day, 6 and 8 are both very demanding holes requiring good drives and lengthy, precise seconds. When the wind blows, 17 and 18 are a brutal finish.

 7 is also a magnificent and memorable hole - visually arrresting and a great challenge, especially when the wind is howling into you.

Also agree with Jason that the greens were very interesting - lots of contour and challenge, without being OTT. The surface was not very pretty (they reminded me of the greens at Saunton) but they were very true.

I was slightly surprised by the set-up of the course because the grass on fairways and in some cases the run-ups to the green was very furry. I think this was partly deliberate - to stop all balls running to the same place and partly timing - Dec 27/28 - but it did mean that the ball did not run off slopes like you would expect eg from left to right on the side of 5th and 9th greens. It also added length to the course by limiting the run of the ball. I think it would be better if the course had more run in it.

There is much talk about a second course - apparently Greg Norman and team have made numerous trips to try to buy the land. My man told me they had been rejected with Coore & Crenshaw possibly more favoured. Not sure how good that info is - and whether a 2nd course will, as at Bandon, make it even more of a destination.

The figures I have heard are that Bandon resort had about 120,000 rounds in 2005 and Barnbougle had about 11,000. Both are remote, but one is at the remote end of a 260m population and the other at the remote end of a 20m population, so comparisons are probably not appropriate. But even if Barnbougle stays only as one course, it is an easy trip from Melbourne which any keen golfer should make as nice supplement to the sandbelt classics!




Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2006, 02:09:47 PM »
Philip & Jason,

I'll be playing at Barnbougle next month, and am very excited. Is there anything near Bridport worth doing for a non-golfer, or is it quite remote (within Tasmania)?

TK

Steve_Roths

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Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2006, 02:15:06 PM »
Hopefully Greg Ramsay will come on tell us of what may come.  From before all this got started the second piece of land was called Lost Farms I believe because the dunes were so big that the animals would get lost in them.  I hope C&C do get the gig and they don't sell out to Norman and company.  I doubt they will use Norman though.  From what I heard second hand Norman was being a snake with the demands that he was trying to squeeze out of them.  

Jason Topp

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Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2006, 02:23:43 PM »
Tyler - my family stayed on the East Coast in a town called Binalong Bay, so I actually did not spend much time in Bridport.  Binalong Bay is about 2 hours away.

We spent Christmas day in Freycinet National Park and hiked about an hour to a terrific beach called Wineglass Bay.  

We also managed to see a large amount of wildlife on the trip, including Wallabees, ehinada, a tasmanian devil and a few other things that crossed the road that I could not identify.

This website is terrific for determining things to do in Tasmania:

http://www.discovertasmania.com.au/home/index.cfm?SiteID=89


Philip Gawith

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Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2006, 02:30:13 PM »
Tyler - I would go to one or two of the fine wine estates and drink some wine!

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2006, 03:51:24 PM »
The other possibility is that Michael Clayton and I would do the second course as well as the first, or at least be offered the chance.  Ultimately it is Richard Sattler's call, and we are on pretty good terms with Richard.

But at the moment it is all speculation, they are still at least a year away from making any decision on the matter of a second 18.

Jason Topp

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Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2006, 04:13:48 PM »

Jason:  If you are a reasonably long hitter and it's downwind then you are right, there's no reason to mess with the left fairway on the 8th.  However, we put it there because in calm conditions there are plenty of players who can only reach the green in two if they take the direct route to the left ... they can't get up the hill from low and right.  Also, that area really had to be grassed anyway to give the hole enough width that you could find the ball.

Tom - I somehow missed this the first time I read your post and appreciate the explanation.  

It is tough to guess how it plays in different wind conditions.  Downwind, I guess it is a bit of a deception, because one assumes that the upper fairway is better.  Not necessarily a bad thing.  Any time I see a split fairway, I am wary of the hole because it seems rare that both of the fairways are actually used, at least on purpose.

Scott Coan

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Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2006, 03:29:59 PM »
Jason, Phil, and anybody else that has made the leap over to Tassie to play Barnbougle...

About 10 of us from Paraparaumu, NZ are heading over to Melbourne for a 7 day golf trek the first week in May.  I have been twisting arms to get agreement to head over and play Barnbougle but am receiving stiff opposition as many feel it is just too far out of the way, with plenty of great play on Sandbelt and Mornington, etc.  I can see their point but I just can't get Barnbougle out of my head to the point where I am considering breaking off from the group and playing on my own.

With your experience of just having made the trip, what are your thoughts on making the effort to get over to Tassie and play Barnbougle if limited to a 7-day trip to Melbourne?

Cheers!
Scott


   

Jason Topp

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Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2006, 03:58:20 PM »
I would do it.  

I think the drive from the airport is about an hour and a half.  If you limited the visit to one day, you could probably fly in in the morning, use the course's shuttle service to get to Barnbougle, play, and then fly out that night.  The flights and the golf might cost less than Royal Melbourne.  Alternately, the accomodations on the course are reasonably priced and you could fly in the evening before.

You might also be able to wait until the last minute to decide, based on weather conditions at the time.  I would be surprised if it would be difficult to find a tee time.  I don't know whether you would get socked with bad airfares but I just checked on Virgin Blue for the 13th and the return airfare price would be $120 Australian for 9:30 pm flights both ways.


Mike_Clayton

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Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2006, 04:27:32 PM »
Scott,

I know we have spoken about this but it is crazy not to go down when you are so close.You will regret it if you don't.
You can easily take a 7.00 plane in the morning,play 36 and take the 9.30 plane back - or stay the night.
I promise the other guys will love it and whilst you are playing fantastic courses in Melbourne there is nothing like Barnbougle.

Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2006, 04:55:45 PM »
On the second site, not only the animals can be lost... visitors can too...

It's an impressive site, the dunes are twice as high, but as a fan of low profile golf, I don't know if it would be as good as Barnbougle Dunes.

Probably more spectacular and fun at first sight, but on the long run, I'd be curious to know who gets the nod.

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2006, 05:01:48 PM »
I would be surprised if it would be difficult to find a tee time.

Scott,

I was recently told by staff that the golf course is fairly heavily booked through the end of April on weekends, but the weekdays are not nearly as busy. I'll be there next month, and am pretty sure that once I return, I'll be advocating that you include Barnbougle Dunes on your upcoming golf trip.

TK

David_Elvins

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Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2006, 05:13:48 PM »
Scott,

I agree with Mike.  You wont regret a day trip and it should be relatively inexpesive.  

Phillipe,

I think I heard somewhere that there is a different possible site for the second course.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2006, 05:14:21 PM by David_Elvins »
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Scott Coan

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Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2006, 05:17:01 PM »
Tyler,

As per Mike and Jason's recommendations, I will be forming a splinter group (of 1 if I have to!) to get over to Barny Dunes.  We all play on a fine links course at Paraparaumu but from what I have seen and heard, Barnbougle is the closest thing to a true Scotch/Irish links that we will find on this side of the equator.  Hopefully some of these responses will help me twist some of the arms in the group so I won't have to make it a solo mission.

SC

Philip Gawith

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Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2006, 05:33:30 AM »
Scott - just seen your question. I agree with everyone else - it is definitely worth the visit, and as Mike points out you can do it in a day, albeit early start, play 36 and it is not too costly overall. The Sandbelt is magnificent, but not so much that there is not room for one day for Barnbougle out of seven.

What a shame I missed you - I played Paraparaumu last Saturday. I thought it was a great course, but Barnbougle is a very different experience. While Pram (can I say that?) is undoubtedly a pretty pure links experience, it  does not have the soulful, next to the sea, remoteness of Barnbougle which lifts it beyond just any old golf experience.

Scott Coan

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Re:Barnbougle Dunes Impressions
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2006, 05:00:50 PM »
What a shame I missed you - I played Paraparaumu last Saturday. I thought it was a great course, but Barnbougle is a very different experience. While Pram (can I say that?) is undoubtedly a pretty pure links experience, it  does not have the soulful, next to the sea, remoteness of Barnbougle which lifts it beyond just any old golf experience.

Phil - bummer I missed you as well.  I trust the winds were blowing for you at Pram?  I think all of NZ was in a gale for that period as I was up in the Coromandel with the wife and kids getting sand-blasted on the beach!  If any kind of norwester was blowing, I'd love to know how you scored on the par 3 2nd, 5th, and 16th...

Love the quote about "soulful, next to the sea, remoteness".  Even though I have only experienced Barnbougle via this board that is just the way I envision it.  I can't wait.

SC