Walking on THE OTHER Bethpage courses

[Adam_F_Collins]

If one was going to spend a few days playing Bethpage courses? How hard is it to walk on the courses - OTHER than the Black?

Is it feasable to spend your nights in your car, and if you get on the Black, great, but if you don't you can play one of the others...

Is that a stupid idea? Or is that pretty much what everyone does?

For those in the know how would you rank the Bethpage courses - from best to worst?

[Kyle Harris]

Adam,

Walking on the other courses at Bethpage is very feasible. On my first trip I couldn't get the Black (it was closed) and got a reasonable time on the Red. All the others can usually be walked on during the course of the day if you get an morning time on the Black. To do that, make sure you get here early the night before (around 8PM), though I've gotten there at 1 in the morning have gotten a 9AM tee time in late August.

Doug and I have done Red and Yellow in one day, and had the chance to do Red and Green.

My ranking of the Bethpage Courses:
1. Red  
2. Black
3. Yellow/Blue/Green

Play the Black before you play the Red though. Whem were you looking to go - that's my second favorite place on the planet.

[Adam_F_Collins]

Not sure when I'll go, but I'm thinking of driving down with one other guy and doing like a two or three day thing...

[M. Shea Sweeney]

Adam,
  As a native of Bethpage State Park I will say your time on the Black will all depend on the day of the week and time of the year when you go. If this is your first time there give yourself as much time as possible and park your car no later than 9pm, even if you may be the only one in the parking lot stay there, its worth it. The red is alot of fun (also worth sleeping in a car for) and you'll enjoy it very much if you can't get on the black. Walking the other courses is much easier than the Black. I suggest a caddie for the black if you do not walk often, they can be arranged in the pro-shop for very reasonable prices acctually, much cheaper than your club. Call the pro-shop the day before for information about whether the Black will be open or not. It can be closed for weird reasons. All the courses are kept in great shape all year round but the Red is a very legit course. The Long Island Open is held there every year. Bakers tickets start at 4:30am for tee times, forget the clubhouse head about 2 miles down the road to some great bagel shops for breakfest.

good luck

[Adam_F_Collins]

What is the earliest time of the season that would be good to go? Are there less crowded times?

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Adam-

  If you call the reservation number (516)249-0707, the recording will give you current information as to courses open and closed.  It's often a good idea to check with an attendant in the pro shop or on the general information line, which is 249-0700.  Yellow and Blue Courses are generally kept open year-round; Green may be open on an as-needed basis.

  Red is usually closed December-March, and Black will open sometime in April.  This winter has been relatively moderate, thus far.  It could open earlier.  

  As for times of year, Spring is a nice time to play, cool weather and generally less crowded before Memorial Day.  I've played as early as March.  The one downside, which is very small, to playing early-early morning is that general services are not always up and running (ie fairways and greens being cut as you play, range may not be open yet)

I'll second M Shea, a great place for breakfast in Bethpage--cheap, quick and efficent-at the foot of Powell Ave, three minutes from the parking lot.  

Having a beer outside the clubhouse on the patio on a warm summer night is something to treasure.  Wonderful.  

PM me if you have further questions and/or as we get into March or before you go--I'll meet up and play with your group if space permits.  

[Jay Flemma]

I live 15 minutes from Bethpage and play the Black several times a year, usually as a single.

Plan A) Go on Mon or Fri at 8 AM and you'll be off by 11:30.  Plan B)  On a weekend, roll in at 4:30 and you'll be off about 1ish.

If you are two, its a little tougher...four is a completely different story.

Here is how I rank the Bethpage Courses:

1) Black
2) Black
3) Black.

All the rest are not even worth your time, especially the red and blue (god the blue is horrible).  There are ZERO lines of charm and poor angles at best.  Avoid avoid avoid.  There is one course at Bethpage to me and its BLACK.
 

[Kyle Harris]

Jay,

When was the last time you played the Red?

[Dave Bourgeois]

Adam,

For a particular month either the Yellow, Green, or Blue is classified as a walk up course.  If you are at the park early, and can't get on the Black than a deuce should be able to go out on whichever is the walk up for that month.

They have a decent system to see available times, and there is usually something, but to play early you have to get a time or be there early.  Of course, going during the week is a tad easier.

If I had to rank them in terms of design and fun I'd go this way:

1)Black
2)Red a very close second
3)Yellow
4)Blue

I have never played the Green so I can't comment.  For a Short course the Yellow is a blast.  The back 9 has what look like some old Tillie holes.  The stretch from 10-14 is particularly interesting.  If I'm not mistaken 12 is a Tillie Reef hole and 14 is one of best par 3s @ the park.

[Kyle Harris]

Dave,

The Yellow is of particular interest to me, and you have the fully intact Tillie holes pegged. A lot of the greens and bunkers are Tillie, but are approach from different angles put in by Alfred Tull during the fifties.

10-14 is one of the best stretches in the park, and 12 is indeed a Reef type hole.

The Green is quirk at its finest, and a fun afternoon schlog if you can tolerate 5+ hours. 18 is a superb finishing hole.

[Dave Bourgeois]

Kyle,

Its interesting to listen to some players @ Bethpage disparage the Yellow, because it is fairly short and not as difficult as the others.  They often use it as a "last resort course".  I find it fun to play, with some of the best green contouring @ the Park (1,3,8,9,12,18) some interesting angles, nice terrain, and some good strategic areas. I suppose that this is why learning about GCA has helped me appreciate golf even more.

Anyway, Bethpage is a wonderful place and has always been worth the weekend drive from Westchester, NY.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Adam,

If traveling from Nova Scotia to see courses, you follow Jay Flemma's advice and get on The Black. The Red is a nice fall back course, but not the reason for lengthy travel.

[Michael Whitaker]

I can't believe that Bethpage continues to use the queue-up-in-the-parking-lot form of teetime distribution. It seems asinine to me.

Why don't they switch to a lottery system like St Andrews? It is much fairer and efficient... and doesn't force patrons to camp out all night for a chance to play.

[Matt_Ward]

Michael Whitaker:

NY State does employ a reservation system for tee times at the facility. Keep in mind that out-of-state folks can reserve tee times but always after the NY State ones have first dibs.

The waiting line approach in the parking areas is far less than in past years. People can still access open-line tee times but they are kept to minimum and those who go to Bethpage with a foursome seeking such a quick way to play had better ply their luck with Lotto.

[Gene Greco]

I believe you would enjoy all the courses.

They are all on large pieces of property and all present their own challenges and fun.

Green and Yellow are a blast to play. Blue is more difficult, possibly more than even the Red.

Clearly, Red is at the head of the class and has great flow throughout the property and numerous great holes including 1,5, 9, 11, 12*(world class),14 and 18.

Shivaschmidt called up last year asking me whether or not it was worth playing the Black while he was in NY and I urged him at all costs to try to get on.

He was BLOWN away.  

[Adam_F_Collins]

Has GCA.com had a "get-together" at Bethpage yet?

[Gene Greco]

Phillip Young had a get together last summer on the Red. How many GCAers were there - I'm not sure.

[Phil_the_Author]

Gene,

We had about 40 come out and enjoy the day.

Most here are unaware of the Tilly work on the Yellow. Tull incorporated 11 of the original holes from the Blue course,of which 6 or so still remain as is as further "refinements occurred in the early 60's under the guise of making it user-friendly for the ladies. The reason for this was because plans had been drawn and work was about to start on the 6th course, when environmentalists protested and the plan was scrapped.

The new Blue used the other 7 holes and Tull re-routed it as is now seen. There are several world-class holes on the Blue that are the equal to those on the Black. The long par-4 second up the valley is brilliant. The long dog-leg left 6th down & back up the hill is absolutely brutally fair.The par-5 (7th or 8th I can't remember) with the valley in front of the green thatoffers a true "go or no-go" decision. The long and lazy slight dog-leg left of #14 is an example of angular play.

Look to come out and play again next fall.  

[Jay Flemma]

Kyle, I've played the red twice since september.  I know some of you like it, but upon further review, the play stands as called.  Yeah, one is a good hole...and thats it.  Its BORES me to tears.  To me, there is only one course there and it is Black.

I'd love to come to the get together and chill w/y'all, but the Red is anathema to me...especially with the Black mere feet away.

[M. Shea Sweeney]

I live 15 minutes from Bethpage and play the Black several times a year, usually as a single.

Plan A) Go on Mon or Fri at 8 AM and you'll be off by 11:30.  Plan B)  On a weekend, roll in at 4:30 and you'll be off about 1ish.

If you are two, its a little tougher...four is a completely different story.

Here is how I rank the Bethpage Courses:

1) Black
2) Black
3) Black.

All the rest are not even worth your time, especially the red and blue (god the blue is horrible).  There are ZERO lines of charm and poor angles at best.  Avoid avoid avoid.  There is one course at Bethpage to me and its BLACK.
 

The Black is closed on Monday its been for years, second the Red is awesome, the USGA wanted to have a U.S. AM there but Bethpage said no. I'm not saying drive 500 miles to play it like you would for the Black course, but if for some reason if you can not play the Black course, the Red will not dissapoint.

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle, I've played the red twice since september.  I know some of you like it, but upon further review, the play stands as called.  Yeah, one is a good hole...and thats it.  Its BORES me to tears.  To me, there is only one course there and it is Black.

I'd love to come to the get together and chill w/y'all, but the Red is anathema to me...especially with the Black mere feet away.

Jay,

Was just curious if you had seen the new changes (tees, trees gone, etc.). I find myself fighting for angle off the tee more on the Red than on the Black. Especially the stretch of 8-10 and 13-16. The Black has similar concepts on holes like 5, 7, and 12, but to me it seems that the type of execution required is more penal than strategic.

To me, the Red gives you more latitude to make a mistake in strategy than the Black.

[John Kavanaugh]

Shivaschmidt called up last year asking me whether or not it was worth playing the Black while he was in NY and I urged him at all costs to try to get on.

That's like me calling the Pope and asking if I should give to the poor...What did he do next, call up Huntley and ask if he should play Pebble when he is coming to Monterey..

[Jay Flemma]

Shea, you're right about Monday, I meant to say come on a weekday.  The point is you can walk up on a weekday very easily as a single or even a twosome and get out really quickly.  Just like all golf myths, the myth of Bethpage being this "you can only camp out from 6pm the night before to get on" or the "secret Black Course mafia" are exaggerated to increase the aura.  My college buddy Chucky seemingly plays the Black every time reach for my morning coffee, its uncanny.  

Kyle, you raise a good point about the angles of the Red being more forgiving, but thats just one reason why I dont like it...I love the challenge of angles.  Also, some angles are too severe.  Look at 15...a 90 degree d-l right guarded by a stand of trees.  Horrible hole.  Favors ONLY long hitters who can reach the knee (yes, I am playing the correct set if tees;)  The length of the holes is too repetitive...long, long long.  It devolves into an uninteresting driver-3 wood-chip affair.  and its a six hour round.  When I play the Black, I get a warm glow as a golfer, when I play the red I wish I'd stayed home and mowed the lawn.  For the SIX HOURS (SIX HOURS!!!) on the red I'd rather a) go shopping with my girl, b) gotten work done in the office, c) had a root canal or d) banged my head against a wall...because thats what its like waiting on every shot on a boring course.

and here's the kicker...THERE'S ONE LINES OF CHARM.  ONE...as pointed out below, its 13.  I just find it boring and I've played things like it a grillion times elsewhere.  The routing isnt even all that great.  I have played it three times in my life...once because I had two guests in town and they insisted on playing it to see it (they were underwhelmed) and once because I wanted to play with Chucky.  NO...friends dont let friends beer goggle and they dont let them golf slum either.

Plus, since its "the best of the rest" and it alloows carts, you get alot of NYC beer swilling looky-loo loudmouth chumps bellowing their way around the course with machismo lkike so many clueless beach boy muscleheads.  Remember...playing public golf in NYC area is the ultimate test of tolerance.  Thanks but no thanks.

It has no flavor or character to me...its a matter of personal taste.  That being said, if y'all are gonna come out, I'll be thrilled to join you bacause I'll talk golf with you guys all th etime anytime.  

[Kyle Harris]

Jay,

Can't say that I agree with you re: the Lines of Charm. Especially on the holes out on the plane (starting with the 8th). The reason I am fighting for those angles is the hazards that create the line of charm. As a shorter hitting low handicapper, I play the back tees. On the Red, I am forced to cut corners on holes like 9, 10, 14 and 15 bringing the hazards into play as I chose. Unlike the Black, I can make my own trouble by making the hole longer and avoiding the hazards.

13 has one of the greatest central bunker complexes I've ever played, and it's a thrill to try and thread the needle down the left side in order to get the angle in.

I think your comments regarding lines of charm are more an indictment of maintenance than architecture. Every superior angle on the Red course is a fight, and the course makes you chose. The Black Course gives you some choices on holes like 4, 5, and 7 but for the most part the selection process is digital. On the fifth on the Black, I can avoid the bunker by going left to the little sliver of fairway, and then have little to no chance of a huge shot into the green. On 9 of the Red, I can bail right, and be tempted to lace a fairway wood on the green and get in a lot more trouble than I would hitting 6-iron - Wedge into the fifth hole of the Black. A smart golfer is forced to take Double Bogey out of the equation on the Black course, but is tempted to put it into the equation on the Red.

Similarly, your comments about length on the Red can be made about the Black as well. Holes like 10, 12, 15 and 16 on the black devolve into Driver - fairway wood - chip for a lot of people too. Or even worse... Driver, mid-iron, wedge...

Are you thinking of 16 as the right angle dogleg? 15 is the Flynn-esque par 4 that makes you play to the outside of the dogleg and the green is integrated with a fairway hazard from the Blue Course. 16 is the right angle par 5.

[Jay Flemma]

It is 16...see It bores me so much I cant even remember the holes.

And yes...I'll grant you 13 is a phenomenal hole too.  Great central bunker.  Lets assume there's six great holes there...I dont wanna play 12 boring ones to see 6 good ones.

Yes to a high handicapper the black is driver 3 wood wedge...but the variety of hole shapes, the way the routing always changes direction that make thecourse for me.  I'm a 15 handicap and just get bored by the red...especially with the Black mere feet away.  Thats like going to Smith and Wollensky's and having to eat a hot dog while everybody else is having a porterhouse.  I'd rather caddy for you guys than play it.