[Tom Huckaby]

Ian - thanks - that's more what I've been getting at.  Sure this CAN be done, but it's just not so simple.

Lake Nona can now officially bite me, however.

 

[Bill Gayne]

Volunteer at a tournament because often they have a day set aside for the volunteers to play the course. I've been told that this is done at ANGC. I've also been told that opportunity to be a volunteer is as difficult as getting tickets. It was also explained to me that you  can't volunteer for a day. You are basically at their service for the entire week. But it's one way to get on ANGC plus it looks like fun during the tournament. People come from all over the Country to volunteer every year at The Masters.

[ed_getka]

Tom,
  Not to rain on your partypooper parade , but one of our esteemed GCA types, not necessarily known for his social graces (not me) drove into Valley Club within the last year or so and expressed interest in looking around. They gave him a cart and off he went. (BTW, just kidding about the social graces part if he is looking in
    Before GCA I would have never expected this to be possible, but when you expect the answer to be yes it often will be. I do agree that the average golfer off the street would most likely get turned down.

[Tom Huckaby]

Ed:

Once again, I have no doubt it CAN happen.  My point remains it's not as simple as Dan initially made it out to be - that it's not gonna happen for the average guy on the street, as you agree with.

I'd bet anything though said "esteemed GCA type" either had a golf-related or some other connection, or got very lucky, or overcame his otherwise-lacking social graces.

 

[TEPaul]

Adam:

You're asking what the policies are for getting on any golf course and walking around to look??

I guess you haven't been on this site that long, huh? Obviously you don't know the little diarrheic dog trick.

The best policy to walk around any course and look at it is to just walk right on generally right over the fence. If anybody catches you and asks you what you're doing you just tell them you're little diarrheic dog jumped out of your car and he's running around on their golf course and he generally takes really running shits all over putting greens and particularly in the cups. Tell the guys who caught you to run around the course one way and you'll run around the other way and by the time you meet up you should've found the little shittin' guy. When you meet up again about half way just tell them you're not sure how everyone missed him but sometimes when he hears people coming he hides in bunkers and does some really runny ones in there which generally filter way down into the sand. Tell the guys to just keep going in the same direction and you will too and when you all meet up again you'll surely have the little poop. This way you should see about the whole golf course and when you meet up with those guys again just tell them you already found the little poop n' pisser and he's back in the car with a cork up his ass. And then you just proceed off the property and back to your car having thoroughly checked out another course that's impossible to get on.

You want to walk around PVGC and look at it? You just come see Old Uncle Tom and he'll take you down there, no problem. We should have our own host but even if we do and if anyone down there wants to know why we're walking around with no clubs we'll just get them runnin' all over them woods for hours on end looking for my little diarrheic dog, just for the hell of it.

[ed_getka]

Tom,
   No connections at all, just expressed an interest in the architecture and obviously knew what he was talking about.
    When Martin was out and we went to Pasatiempo I asked the pro if they had a courtesy rate for architects and he said no, but then offered a free use of a golf cart. 5 years ago I would never have asked the question. That doesn't change the average Joe thing, but I really believe its more a matter of mindset. Connections will never hurt, but I don't think they are as necessary as you think.
    I just thought of one example of going out to look at a course. A few years back David Kelly and I were on our way up to Kingsley Club and Crystal Downs. I wanted David to see the really cool greens at Lost Dunes, so I pulled up to the gate and explained to the guy over the intercom that we were interested in architecture and could we come in to look around before it got dark. They let us in and gave us a cart and off we went. No connections involved.

[Tom Huckaby]

Ed:

Thanks.  Re said "GCA stalwart", I'm fallng back on the charm criteria.  

But once again, I have never said it CAN'T be done, just that it isn't so easy as Dan made it out to be.  And nothing anyone has said here makes me deviate from that take.

The rule remains that private clubs are private, and that Joe Q. Public will be denied far more often than he will be allowed entrance.

Disagree?

TH

[Pete Lavallee]

Tom,

Here's the $64,000.00 question: Why would Joe Q. Public want to "walk" a golf course and not play it?

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom,

Here's the $64,000.00 question: Why would Joe Q. Public want to "walk" a golf course and not play it?

AHA!  Great question, and I am hoisted on my own petard.

The answer is no - and that's also why if they tried to do this, they'd get turned down, because the folks at the club would notice the clubs hidden behind their backs.  

But I still think even among GCA Aficionados, the answer is going to be no UNLESS they a) use considerable charm; and b) plan ahead and be very flexible.  I might be reading Dan wrong, but to me he seemed to say just walk up and ask nice and you're guaranteed access.  That I don't see, even for Steve J. ArchitectureNut.

 

I guess my take here is also clouded by the feeling I have that this type of thing is SO much of an imposition, one would have to be Dan King/Mother Teresa himself/herself to make this sit well in terms of etiquette.  That is, you BETTER go overboard on the charm and BETTER show proper gratitude or this is actually kinda rude.  Of course the assumption here is that all of the examples mentioned do meet this standard.  Not everyone would.  So I remain uncomfortable preaching that this is no big deal, just ask... Is that really the right message that ought to go out?

Not that anyone takes messages from here, but well...

Aw screw it, I'm just trying to get my mind off football as I am going nuts waiting for kickoff.  

[Jfaspen]

I found out this weekend that a lot of times, employees of a course just really love to show it off.

Nowhere near as exclusive as Cypress or the Valley Club, but I found myself in Ponte Verde Florida and after bluffing through the gate, turned into the TPC of Sawgrass.  Went up to the clubhouse, down the hill and saw the 18th, was met with a sign that said "registered golfers only beyond this point."
I saw a path leading up hole 9 and I was tempted (I really just wanted to get a quick look at 17 and 16) but instead I asked a ranger if there was any way me and my friend could view 17.  He promptly retrieved a cart that could carry 4 people and off we went on a short tour of 9, 18, 17, 16 and 10.  

Cool experience.. I don't think I'd have the gall to walk up to the Valley Club or Cypress and ask to get a quick glimpse of 16, but I'd probably try it again on a course of Sawgrass's level.

jf

[Dan King]

I don't think I ever said it was easy. It takes some work. I'd learn plenty about the course before asking. I'd make a point of the features I wanted to see. Many times the head pros were happy to show off what made the course special.

It was also important to make it clear you were vary flexible regarding when you could go. It had to be at their convenience, not your own. Many private clubs are closed on Monday, so often  that would be the best time to not bother any of the membership.

I also made it clear I wasn't trying to angle for a chance to play the course. My intent was just to look around, not hope they would offer to let me play. I asked once at Bel Aire 10 years ago and the pro told me go ahead and bring my clubs and maybe he could find a member to play a round. I told him that wasn't necessary, I just wanted to see the course, not play it.

I've always enjoyed walking courses sans club, and perhaps the head pros could tell I wasn't angling for a chance to play.

I haven't done this in years, but I can't imagine it is all of a sudden impossible. I think it pays to be respectful and knowledgeable -- and if that doesn't work, then try the Tom Paul method.

Dan King

Me thinks that the moment my legs begin to move, my thoughts begin to flow.
 --Henry David Thoreau

[Tom Huckaby]

Dan - very cool - I guess I read you wrong before.  I find nothing at all to disagree with in this most recent post.

And again, it's not going to be impossible these days, as the examples cited show.  It's just perhaps not as easy as 10+ years ago, and in any case never was very easy.  It takes the care and attention you delineate, maybe more now than before, but still it is required.

So it is written, so it shall be done.

Pharoah Thomas

[Adam_F_Collins]

The U.S. courses I most want to walk are Cypress, Pebble, NGLA, Shinnicock, Pine Valley, Oakmont, ANGC, Fisher's Island and Merion. I'd love to play them, of course, but I'm trying to stay somewhat realistic.

In Canada, my list would include Scarboro, Hamilton, The National and Royal Montreal.

There are plenty in the UK and elsewhere, but I'm starting with the continent I live on...

[Dave Kemp]

Well certainly far from the calibre of courses being mentioned here I have a short story to share.  St Andrews NB (as in New Brunswick, Canada) staff were very accomodating to me when I showed up unannounced one early morning this past summer.  I asked if I could take a walk around the still dew covered course and snap a few photos.  Explained that we were about to hit the road for the first leg of our return drive after 2 weeks vacation in the Maritimes.  I did not have time to play but wanted to see the course.  Armed with a yardage book, scorecard and nice pewter bag tag I was given a cart and told to enjoy myself on my tour.  Would not have expected anything less from the always hospitable Maritimers right Adam.  

[Adam_F_Collins]

There aren't many places that are too exclusive up here. People are generally pretty acccommodating.

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