Great courses-Great Players

[Russell Lo]

Just watched a replay of the 1995 Amateur with Tiger and Buddy Marucci. Although I'mnot sure about his affiliation with the club, Marucci was wearing a Pine Valley shirt and hat. This go me thinking.

If he, along with Jay Sigel who had a tremendous amateur career, both played Pine Valley on a regular basis, did that help develop their fine playing ability or were they already accomplished players who then became members at a great club?

Would this apply to other top notch golfers that were members at top notch clubs?

[Tom Jefferson]

Johnny Miller learned to play at the Olympic Club, Jack Nicklaus at Scioto in Columbus.  I believe Miller said the reason he could hit those soft high cuts was because of those shot demands into the tiny greens of Olympic Lakeside.

But look at the countless good and great players that learned at less sterling courses, dog tracks, muni tracks, driving ranges, etc; to me the course is just one small factor, of many, that affect and shape a player.

ps.....Billy Casper at San Diego CC (The Captain?), Gene Littler at La Jolla CC. (Billy Bell the Superior).  

Best regards to all, and a great 2006 to ya.

Tom

[Bob_Huntley]

Lee Trevino, Tennyson Park and worse.

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

Russell,

Buddy and Jay got into clubs because they were already established as great players.  Their abilities preceeded their memberships.

I also watched the match.

Do you remember the announcer, I forget his name, declaring, when it started to rain late in the match, that the golf course was in desperate need of water because of the brown colored turf ?

This is part of the problem.
Commentators who don't have a clue profering this info to the general public, and club members who accept such absurd comments as the "Gospel"

I was surprised by the number of short putts Tiger failed to concede.

It was nice to see Tiger and his dad in an emotional embrace on the 18th green.

[tonyt]

In Australia, most top juniors out of a great course got somewhere first before they had anything to do with the club. Juniors starting at a great club are more likely to earn a future six figure salary than become a top golfer.

I think the link is there, but it is the other way around. The better the upcoming player, the more good clubs will be likely to have an attachment or be open to one with him or her, particularly if the pennant team requires it. A lot of top players have strengths and weaknesses that don't seem to correlate with what the learning would be at their home or original club.

Peter Thomson officially comes out of Victoria Golf Club, but when young he got down to scratch or almost scratch whilst playing at a cheap, short nine hole public course around the perimeter of Melbourne Zoo.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

There might be something to a really good course helping create really good players.  The Torrey Pines High School team might have a top 10 college level team this year.  They play out of Rancho Santa Fe.  I've watched players develop here for years--they learned to kill the ball early on and developed awesome short games.  This may be the anti-Leadbetter academy--very minimal coaching, but very pro-junior playing rules.  Jamie Lovemark learned without a coach, but significant use of video.  He is the latest among many college scholarship recipiants.

[Tom Jefferson]

Robert;
What qualities, features, characteristics does Rancho Santa Fe have that contributes to those players becoming great?

Green concept, size, and contouring?  Length of holes?  Terrain that forces golfers to improve or else lag behind?

I would appreciate your comments re the above.  My memory is really dim re RSF........I played it once in a junior event way back in 1962, and while I was greatly impressed, well............anything impressed me back then!!

Thanks,

Tom


ps.......unending torrents of rain, walls of wind here at Bandon Dunes.

[Michael Hayes]

Robert Mercer Deruntz alluded to great junior golfers coming from a specific course...I want to add a little about my home course and its juniors of the past 7 or so years...

Little ol' Kitsap Golf & Country Club will not be called a great course by anyone, not even me.  But in the last decade we have sent a dozen golfers to NCAA Div. 1 schools, mostly in the pac 10.  We have a weak junior program, but these kids all learned to excell at KG&CC...

I attribute their success to the fact that at KG&CC driving distance is not a factor (6300 yds, 71), but that accurate iron play and short game skill is required to master our little track.  smallish greens with pronounced slope forced these youngsters to find the "right" area on the greens.  These kids grew up putting on firm poa late in the afternoon, they weathered adversity continually...

KG&CC's former junior standout Troy Kelly shot 81-67 to miss the cut by 1 at the 05 US open

[Brad Klein]

The laws of average are working against any such assumption. How come there aren't Tour pros developed from the ranks of NGLA, Cypress Point, Pine Valley?

Training on dirt, in wind, without benefit of a driving range and under harsh conditions is a better training ground for learning to compete than having outstanding architecture.

Did some future Tour players benefit from shot-making demands as kids? Probably. But it's far from a significant factor. More likely it's grit, hard work and proper training.