Hickory thoughts

[Dan King]

I’ve been thinking some about Ran’s interview. I’ve lost some interest in playing golf. I started out playing fewer clubs, dropping from 14 to 12 to 8 to 5 to 1 to zero. Once I got down to zero it seemed kind of silly to still pay green fees. So I’ve been playing very little golf lately.

Ran’s interview got me thinking maybe hickory is the answer. Perhaps playing some hickory clubs will get me jazzed about actually playing the game. But being left handed, I’m not sure antique clubs are right for me. Is there a more economical method of getting into hickory? Maybe someone out there making hickory clubs?

If the best answer is antique clubs, what are we talking price-wise to get six or seven left-handed antique hickory clubs? Any thoughts?

Dan King

Nobody strikes the ball on the streets with clubs with lead or iron heads.
  --Ordinance of Zierikzee, 1429

[John Kavanaugh]

Dan,

With hickory you don't need 6 or 7 clubs...you need a spoon a 5 iron a 7 iron and a wedge (9 iron) and a putter.   You can get premium hitting clubs on ebay for no more than $50 per club..though lefty may be tougher.  If times are good you might get as much as $300 in a full set not including bag...I paid $80 for the most beautiful bag I have ever seen.

Good Luck..

[John Kavanaugh]

Even now on ebay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-HICKORY-WOOD-SHAFT-L-H-5-CLUBS-LEATHER-BAG_W0QQitemZ7206088485QQcategoryZ83043QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I do think you can do better though...

[Sean_A]

Dan

If hickories are too much trouble you could follow my brother's lead.  He plays with a 5 wood and a putter.  He claims that the clubs were starting to take up too much space in his bag.  It was either the sticks or the beer.

Ciao

Sean

[Mike_Sweeney]

Dan,

As strickly an observer of Ran with his hickories and Mr Moore in his previous life with persimmon woods, I don't think distance is as big of a factor as you may think. They both still used modern balls. Hit a ProV on the button (as Faxon did) and it will go. The big difference in my mind are the miss hits. The fade is now a banana, and the draw is a duck hook. On Par 3's the misshit is now way short.

My biggest hangup was watching Ran putt. The difference between Ran's hickory blade and Patrick's 25+ year old Bullseye style putter was enormous.

I think it could be fun on a Merion West type course, but on Merion East, it would be a long day for me.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Sween,
Really simple. You move up.

Recently, I was fortunate to come across a set of hickories and played with them for the first time last week, walking nine holes of the William Johnson-designed Brea Golf Course.

I had a blast.

I hit shots tom every imaginable location, some as much as 50 yards off-line, still, it showed me that I'm swinging the clubs too hard AND that it took some amount of perserverance to learn how to hit a golf ball back then. The times changed--and its undeniable.

John hits it right on the nails of his hickories though. You really don't need anymore then he has suggested. My putter is also an ancient relic, looking like something from late 1930 that has a somewhat regular grip on it with a steel shaft, but the head is very short and heavy.

I made three long breaking putts with it. I've even thought about putting it on my regular bag full-time!

The most important thing out of all of it was that I was walking, and that was a really good thing.

[John Kavanaugh]

We played Cuscowilla with hickories and tore the place up...must have been 20 members of this board that participated and can witness...I don't remember if it was Patches or Peaches that almost sank the eagle with my $7 club..kinda a 7 iron..Our best ball alternate shot was under par..

[Ian Andrew]

Dan,

Being a fellow leftie, I have seen a few hickories. Good luck, and let me know if you have success.

I have a set of very early forged Titliest irons in perfect condition. I have been looking to pass these on to someone who would get the joy of hitting them and would appreciate them. I can no longer hit them or anything else for that matter. But they deserve a good home rather than to sit in a closet.

I don't know if this fits your needs, but let me know.

Ian

[Mike_Young]

Dan,
If you really want a couple of LH hickory clubs...IM me and i will send some to you.  I have a barrel of them in the office.  They need cleaning.

[Jim Sweeney]

Dan:

Try Louisvillegolf.com. They make reproduction long nose and "goldan age" (20's) hickory woods and refurbish hickory shafted irons. I cannot guarantee they have lefties, but give it a try.

Playing with hickories is a blast. Hope they help your enthusiasm for the game. Please also read (or re-read) Halutain's "Mystery of Golf," as that will surely get you headed in the right direction, also. We're pulling for you. In the words of Red Green, "We're all in this together."

[Tony_Muldoon]

Round about the time the previous interview was posted (surely deserves the title the Greatest Interview ever Posted on GCA) I swapped a couple of emails with Alfie Ward.

One of the things Alfie said he would think about was trying to get to next years Buda cup and if people would pay the cost he could hire out his collection of hickories.  I would love to play one of the rounds (at Wallasey?) with hickories and if I was paired with someone else playing them then handicaps would take care of themselves?  Would anyone else be interested in this?  (Sorry Alfie if you feel I'm trying to press gang you!).

Also I meant to ask, did you make the clubs yourself or just the balls?

[John Keenan]

Another option is Tad Moore the club/putter maker. He offers a complete set of hickory sticks.

Far beyond my skill set but fun to read about and maybe one day see.

http://www.tadmoore.com/index.html

[Tom Huckaby]

I was one of the 20-odd present for the great hickory alternate shot match at Cuscowilla.  I've said it many times and I'll say it again:  that was as much fun as grown men can have playing the game.  Good lord, what a blast.

BUT - anyone who says those clubs are not that hard to hit has rocks in his head.  Sure, some great shots were hit - but man you had to WORK to make it happen.  And the mis-hits were horrid.  Easy to forget those as when they happened, the team picked up.  

BUT ALSO - I too witnessed Ran play pretty damn good golf with hickories.  He cleaned my clock.  Of course that bet was won on the first tee given the obscene number of strokes he demanded, but he obviously can live with himself, so who am I to complain?  He did play well.

What I just don't understand is the rationale behind playing hickories long-term.  Hell I find it fun to do so and now own a few (sorry Dan, no lefties) and like to try other people's when I see them... But man the game remains hard enough with modern clubs for me that I get plenty of challenge.  Dan, I also have seen you play and unless you got a LOT better during your inactivity, well... the game remains a challenge for you as well, and would if we allowed you 50 clubs in the bag.  I mean this as absolutely no offense - it's the same for me.  

I also travelled this road, carrying less than 14 clubs for awhile... it is fun to force one's self to invent shots... but after awhile, in the long term, if you are playing competitive matches and/or care at all about the outcome, well... you get tired of missing a "knock-down cut 3/4 7iron" when the shot called for an easy full-swing 8.  

So what is the motivation to switch to hickory?  In Dan's case, well he's made it clear he's pretty disgusted with American golf, and thus he likely just needs some motivation in the way of CHANGE to get out and play the game again.  I can dig that.  Hickories would be a good call for Dan.  It just is pretty tough to find lefties.

But man, is the game really THAT easy for the rest of you that you need more challenge?  Don't you hit creative shots even with modern clubs?  And if the motivation is as Ran seems to indicate in his interview - to play a great golf hole like the Devil's Cauldron with a club it was MEANT to be played with - well how many of you really hit the ball that far so that this doesn't happen with modern clubs?  No offense to Ran, but his hickory 5 iron would have been a modern 6 - I've seen the man play and he's no giant.  So what does it matter what other monsters are hitting?  Hell I don't hit the ball any farther than I ever have... 150 is a 7iron for me now, was when I was 13.  OK, maybe that's bad in and of itself that geezer me can still hit the ball as far as I did when I was a limberback, but man it's not like I'm playing any golf holes shorter than they were intended....

I just don't get it.  Maybe it is just me.

And remember, I like playing hickories and/or ancient steel blades and/or a shortened # of clubs in the bag - in the SHORT TERM, as a fun distraction.  But over the long haul?

The modern sticks always come back, all 14.

What am I missing?

[Sean_A]

Tomahuck

I am with you.  I have no intention of investing in wooden sticks when I have only 9 properish sticks in my bag now.  I don't use 9 sticks because of some protest against the modern age.  I like to carry and my back isn't as useful as it once was.  My back is the main reason I don't really enjoy 36 in a day either.

Ciao

Sean

[Alfie]

Dan,

Lefties are obviously a bit trickier to buy, but they are out there. here's a link to www.oldgolfauctions.com where you might find present and past merchandise. Prices for playable clubs are not that scary and they usually state if certain items are suitable. They also ship anywhere.

Can I suggest something else to ease your present state of golfing melancholy ? Try picking up some old 1.62 balls from the 60's / 70's and see if they conjure up a little more fun for you (using your present clubs) ? You can buy them at above auction as singles, sleeve's of three, or box's of 1 dozen - all brand new and still in the wrappers. Try the apparently unavailable dialled back balls for yourself, Dan ?
Compliments on your website - BTW.

Tony, old pal,

I must be oweing you a pretty penny by now ?
Don't worry about any press gang - you're doing great !

The clubs I have (12sets + 1 leftie) are reproduction Nicoll Gems made by www.heritage-golf.co.uk from St Andrews. Frowned upon by complete numpties, these clubs offer groups (2-24) the exact same challenge using identical equipment as opposed to bags of randomly collected antique hickory clubs. Although all hickories are fine. Anyone interested can visit my own web, but be pre-warned - it's crap ! Cause it's free  
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/Hickory
The main difference lies in the balls I can supply. A recommended Lattice pattern replica's from the 1920's which are user friendly and...that's right, the bloody thing's just don't go so far. Or the real McCoy - a gutta (which I make myself Tony) which sometimes just doesn't go AT ALL ! More suitable for the lower handicap player.

John ;
"Far beyond my skill set but fun to read about and maybe one day see."

If you're so unfortunate to be blind and armless suffering from gout -  then hickory play may well be beyond your "skill set" ?
Believe in yourself John  ! I've had KIDS playing hickory and loving it !


TomH,
"BUT - anyone who says those clubs are not that hard to hit has rocks in his head.  Sure, some great shots were hit - but man you had to WORK to make it happen.  And the mis-hits were horrid."

That's why I personally advocate a rolled back ball only, and that equipment should be gauged by the present status quo governed by the rules. Equipment is definitely a case of the "genie being out of the bottle" and, IMO, justifiably so ! You can't take away THAT part of golf technology from the average golfer - but a few yards in distance with the ball ?


Alfie.

[Bill_McBride]

I have been buying used but good quality balata Titleists from golfball.com to play with my hickories, much better feel than Pro V1.  And good price too.  $79.95 for 100 in a bag.  You have to navigate around and find "Value Bags."

[Tom Huckaby]

Alfie:

Don't get me wrong - I enjoy playing with throttled-back equipment, be it old clubs or old golf balls.  It's fun, for a change.  My question is why anyone would play ALL (or most) of his golf this way.  The game remains tough enough with modern equipment.

But if one was to ask me how to throttle things back to make the game more challenging for those at the highest level, well I would surely start with the ball, not with any implements.

Want to hear something honest about this as well?  Part of why I enjoy playing with hickories and/or old golf balls is that all expectation to play well is removed.  That is, if a bad shot is hit, it's the fault of the club and not the golfer.  It is liberating.  I wonder how many other hickory players will admit to this...
 

Of course this liberation only goes so far though - for me.  

[Dan King]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and comments. I think hickory is in my future.

Sean Arble writes:
If hickories are too much trouble you could follow my brother's lead.  He plays with a 5 wood and a putter.

Like I said, I tried the reducing clubs. But I kept reducing, until I got to zero, and then it just seemed silly to pay green fees.

Ian Andrew writes:
I have a set of very early forged Titliest irons in perfect condition.

I have an old set of 1950s era Wilson blades out in the garage. They are beautiful clubs but probably in need of some newer grips. Maybe I’ll try those out for a while. I might just look for a couple old woods to go with them. Maybe I’ll try moving back a couple decades every so often.

Still seems something cooler about hickory than old blades. I’d like to give ‘em a shot, get ready with them for the King’s Putter. I’m betting a bunch of southerners are already lining up to get me as an opponent.

Tom Huckaby writes:
Dan, I also have seen you play and unless you got a LOT better during your inactivity, well... the game remains a challenge for you as well, and would if we allowed you 50 clubs in the bag.

My scores have been pretty good with zero clubs. I’ve had a number of other scores, but mostly it is a bunch of threes and fours.

I’m not doing this to get a new challenge, just something that might get me enthused about playing the game again. I haven’t had the urge to get better, so I haven’t felt much like working on the game. Maybe hickories is just what the doctor ordered.

In Dan's case, well he's made it clear he's pretty disgusted with American golf, and thus he likely just needs some motivation in the way of CHANGE to get out and play the game again.  I can dig that.  Hickories would be a good call for Dan.  It just is pretty tough to find lefties.

That’s the whole reason, motivation. And it apparently isn’t nearly as tough to get lefties as I originally thought. I could see myself getting excited about improvement with old clubs.

Alfie writes:
Try picking up some old 1.62 balls from the 60's / 70's and see if they conjure up a little more fun for you

I love your interview. The old balls would be neat. I’ve played with the small ball before. It was much more fun. I just didn’t realize I could still get them Thanks for the headsup.

Tom Huckaby again:
Want to hear something honest about this as well?  Part of why I enjoy playing with hickories and/or old golf balls is that all expectation to play well is removed.  That is, if a bad shot is hit, it's the fault of the club and not the golfer.  It is liberating.  I wonder how many other hickory players will admit to this...

I know that is part of it for me. Part of the appeal of playing with five or six clubs was a nice excuse when I shot higher than I expected. I like the lower expectation thing. When I worked hard at the game it became less fun, because my expectations also went up. Playing with hickory, I think I might get that feeling of starting over at golf.

Of course this liberation only goes so far though - for me.

I’m thinking it will go further for me.

Dan King

It became slowly but painfully apparent that playing a different sized ball in the championship matches of each country would present a problem, if not an ultimatum. The R & A followed the usual
practice of British diplomacy. They thought a sensible compromise was possible, in the shape of a ball somewhere in between. They manufactured two experimental balls, 1.65 and 1.66 inches in
diameter respectively. They were offered to the Americans as a proud solution. The Americans, however, remembering Jefferson and the Louisiana Purchase (which was unconstitutional, and sneaky, but worked), had a better idea. Why not compromise, they suggested, by using our ball. And so it was. The bigger American ball is now compulsory in all R & A championships and in British professional tournaments.
 --Alistair Cooke

[Alfie]

Dan, or any other aspiring hickory "explorer",

If you do manage to get a few clubs together and get yourself out on to the course, AND YOUR COURSE IS ON THE LONG SIDE ?  Then try playing from the forward tees, or dare I say it, from the ladies tees (if your pride can handle that ?)
Playing hickory should be FUN as well as challenging, and it really has to be in some sort of SCALE when playing a modern course !
 
You know. When hickory play is ever mentioned on here, it seems to scare the living daylights out of many golfers ? Why ?
Modern day golfers appear to have developed a perceptive fear of all things involving difficulty. Makes you wonder why some people play chess - instead of draughts !

Go for it, Dan. I promiss you'll love it. Then after a couple of games with your hickories, try a game with your modernies and see if you've improved any ?

Alfie.