If you had to build a par 4 where you could beat Tiger....

[John Kavanaugh]

Would it be long, short, tight, easy or hard...how would you build a par four that gives you the best chance to win...

[Tom Huckaby]

It would have plenty of windmills, go through Abe Lincoln's closing and opening long legs* and end up at a volcano green.

Minigolf is the only way I'd have a chance.  And even then he beats me 9 times out of 10.

Real golf?   No way.  There is nothing involved in the game he's not WAY better than me at.

Of course if I had to give myself a chance, well it would be a tricked-up tiny par four where both of us have to lay up off the tee - I'm talking no possible way to go for the green.  My only hope is a wedge battle then to a HUGE green - if it's a small green, well then his huge superiority in wedge play means he hits it, I don't, he wins.  If we both have putts, maybe 1 out of 20 I make 3 and he fails to do so.

TH

* mandatory Simpsons reference.

[Tom_Doak]

John:  If I seriously wanted to build a hole where I had a chance to play Tiger Woods pretty even, here's what I would do:

The hole would be about 400 yards long so he can't drive it and I can still get there in two.

The green would be IMPOSSIBLE to hold, so we would both have to settle for being over the back with our second shots.

I'd have to beat him from there, which I can't do anymore, but at least I'd have a fighting chance.

Either that, or build a mini-golf par-4.

[Tom Huckaby]

Either that, or build a mini-golf par-4.

I'd quote the adage about great minds, but well you all know how aw-shucks I am and how I hate to pat myself on the back.

 

TD - Tiger beats you in that scenario.  No offense but his short-game is WAY better than yours, and I say that having never seen you play.  But that does give you a chance.  I just think you have a better chance if it's a huge green and you're both putting for three every time.  Hell Tiger's human and does miss putts.  

[A.G._Crockett]

I'll say a short 4 that Tiger CAN drive, but is penalized severely for missing.  The layup option has to leave us both with 80 yds. or so and to a relatively simple green.  I have a better chance (though still pathetically small) with a wedge and a flat, straight putt than with a chip and a putt to a green so severe (as in Tom Doak's scenario) that Tiger can't hold it with his second shot.

My best hope of winning, obviously, is for him to try to drive the green and miss, and have to hit 3 from the tee!

[John Kavanaugh]

Of all the holes I play on a regular basis this one best fits my game and takes away Tigers length advantage...my best chance is a lucky bounce on the drive and making a 2 to Tigers 3....It's an interesting theory making the hole easier rather than harder..

http://www.norwoodhills.com/Home.aspx?ContentID=58

go to hole 5..but I could take any of the first 5 short par 4's..it is a really cool start on a neat old course.

[Bill Gayne]

I would put a huge water hazard between my landing area on the  drive and his landing area so that our second shots would be the same at about 150 yards. The water would extend to about thirty yards short of the green so that I could have the option of running the ball on if necessary. I would then try to make it into a putting contest with me draining a long putt for birdie and Tiger missing a short putt for par.

[Tom Huckaby]

I would put a huge water hazard between my landing area on the  drive and his landing area so that our second shots would be the same at about 150 yards. The water would extend to about thirty yards short of the green so that I could have the option of running the ball on if necessary. I would then try to make it into a putting contest with me draining a long putt for birdie and Tiger missing a short putt for par.

Bill - that's exactly what I have in mind - something where we're both forced to hit a 2nd shot from the same distance - then make it a putting contest.  I just added I want the green huge because if I miss it's game over - and he's not gonna miss the green hardly ever, so making it small doesn't help me.

TH

[Mike Hendren]

No chance, Cyrus Vance.  I'm dead meat.  

[John Kavanaugh]

If I could combine the difficult drive on Victoria Nationals number 2 with the blind approach from number 3..I could beat Tiger 10% of the time..

[Billsteele]

Barney-The link you provided doesn't take one to a specific hole but only a summary of the front nine on the East Course. Is it #5 that you are talking about (270 yard par four)? That would make sense given your scenario. Whoops, you added it as I was writing. In the words of Emily Latella, "Never mind."

[John Kavanaugh]

Barney-The link you provided doesn't take one to a specific hole but only a summary of the front nine on the East Course. Is it #5 that you are talking about (270 yard par four)? That would make sense given your scenario.

Yea..It's the 5th hole...You know how some holes just fit your eye.

[Brian Noser]

Are we talking could or have to? Could I would like to take my chance on just about any hole under 450. If I had to beat him no matter what, it would be a hole that a forced layup is a must, and leaves us both a shot of less then 150. Then i still would have to hit a great shot to beat him. It would play about 400 yards, from the 120 mark to the green all carry i do not want to give him a chace to be heroic.

[Matt MacIver]

I like where you were going with this.  Of course since I'm building it and will have played it a ton of times and the first look he gets at it is from the tee box, lots of hidden trouble long (i.e. run-away fairway, uneven lies, hidden pot bunkers, etc) MIGHT give me a fighting chance.  The question wasn't to make a fair hole for him, so I'm thinking a plush fairway for me and hardpan for him....

[Mike Hendren]

On second thought, I meet him on the 8th tee at the Hill Course at French Lick Springs.  He gets no advantage off the tee (put the tee as far back and left as possible and hope he can't fly the trees and drive the green) and his pitch shots just keep spinning back off the green down into the valley.  On the other hand, my patented no-spin chopped clothesline approach runs right up to the hole, played with a Top-Flite of course.  The greens are stimping at 6 tops.



Yeah, that's the ticket.

Mike

[Garland Bayley]

It would be built on totally flat land in the plains. The fairway grass would be long enough to prevent a great amount of spin being put on the ball. The championship tees would be 498 yards for Tiger to play. The old fart tees would be 348 yards for me to play.

[Dan_Callahan]

I agree with the forced layup idea. Something like a 300 yard hole that takes a 90-degree dogleg at about 200 yards from the tee. Massive redwoods on the inside of the dogleg so he can't go over. That leaves us both with a 100-yard shot to the green. A full sandwedge for me and hopefully leaves him between clubs. Of course, the hole would suck from an architectural standpoint—and I'd still lose—but it would be my best chance of beating him.

[Jordan Wall]

"and leaves us both a shot of less then 150. Then i still would have to hit a great shot to beat him"


What about a Par-4 similar to the seventh at Pine Valley.  Say, 330 or something to carry the bunker-wasteland thing or 220 to the front of it.  Tiger could think about making the carry, but theres no way it would really happen!  If he didnt you would still have the same 150 yard shot as Tiger.

[Mark Bourgeois]

First hole at TOC?  To beat Tiger, you have to somehow subdue his power and short game advantages.  You have to put a cross-hazard before the green and eliminate difficult up and downs or exceedingly difficult putts.

Even then your best hope is dormie...

[Brian Noser]

Jordan, I have seen some of the shots he hits under tournament pressure. I would hate to have him not thinking about score in recreational play, hey if I can carry it 350 I  can go over it, he would do it, then I am screwed!!  

[Jordan Wall]

Ok, make it a carry of 360 and put the hazard in front of the green.  Make the hole a little downwind.  There is NO WAY he could carry 360 yards.  But he might think so...Remember it hurts your ego not to try these things (ie. 360 carries)

[TEPaul]

"If you had to build a par 4 where you could beat Tiger...."

John:

The only way to build a par 4 where any of us could beat Tiger would be to have a little sign attached the ball washer on the tee with an arrow pointing to a holster with a .38 in it (also attached to the ball washer) so you could shoot him as he was teeing off.  

[rjsimper]

But isn't par arbitrary?  

I would make it a putting green with tee markers 12 feet from the hole.  I figure he is 7 or 8 of 10 from there and I'm 4 of 10 from there...

I say that gives me better odds of beating him than any setup involving the long game and the short (non-putting) game.

So the hole has to be won with a double-eagle...who cares, right?

[Brad Tufts]

An ultra-short par 4 with severe penalties for close misses.  He would have no choice but to go for it, and I would hit my 5-iron and a SW from 80...i would probably make birdie 1 of 4, and if he didn't hit his 3-wood perfectly, he would make lots of 4s.  #6 at Tedesco (277 uphill) and #6 at Myopia (260 over a creek with a very severe green are good examples.

[Tony_Muldoon]

First hole at TOC?  

Good call, can anyone remember Tiger starting a round there one over?

Who here can claim to have done one or two better than that?