[Tom Huckaby]

You're gonna love all of it, Mickey.  Starting at Carnoustie, well... you'll get the full feel of Scottish golf right away... just don't get discouraged as not all the courses are that tough.

As for the length, heck I too thought 6200 was short.  Then I played the course.  If you have any wind at all - and that's about a 80% likelihood if not more - you won't come off 18 wishing the course was longer.  Please believe me.  Jamie's a plus handicap very competitive national-ranked amateur, and he caught it on a benign day.

As for TOC, it might be a stupid question but have you explored all avenues to get a guaranteed time?  My group did - we stayed at the Dunvegan and they made it happen, months in advance.  Oh the ballot probably will work... but man it's tough to leave that sort of life experience to chance.

And it is a life experience.  I mean life-changing.  Jamie's right about the chills....

TH

[Mickey Boland]

Tom,

I can't say we really explored a lot of different ways to get on TOC.  I applied for an advance reservation on Sept. 7 this year, the first day they were taking applications for 2006.  We were unsuccessful, but they did indicate that our application would be held until January.  So, I still will hear from them one more time, although I'm not holding out a lot of hope for success.  We decided we didn't want to pay an arm and a leg to go through one of the other "guaranteed" sources, and we've already made other lodging arrangements, so looks like it's the daily ballot for us.  Ferguson (who we're using for trip planning) indicates that times come available throughout the year, and one can keep checking with the Links Management to see if we can get one that way.  We want to play TOC, but my group has decided that it's not going to ruin the trip if we don't.  If we do, it's just lagniappe.  (I know you like that word.)

[Tom Huckaby]

Mickey - fair enough, great attitude, sorry to be a downer, I'm sure it will all work out just fine.

And yes I do love that word.

 

[JSlonis]

Mickey,

I hope you have good luck with getting on The Old Course.  We had no problem getting a tee time from the ballot system.  While no one will ever say...I think there is more to the "ballot" than just luck.

The owner of the Crail Golf Hotel was a great host, who put us on the ballot through his hotel.  We got a 10:00 am tee time for the day we wanted, and we were there in the middle of August.  He said he has 100% success getting groups on TOC through the ballot.

[Mickey Boland]

And, even if it doesn't pan out this time, I'll still have TOC to look forward to on my next trip!

My great wife has conceded to this stag trip (my first to Scotland) as my birthday present for next year.  I've told her that I'm just scouting out the place so that my next trip, with her along, will be the best.

[Tom Huckaby]

Jamie - methinks the good folks at the Dunvegan don't exactly corner the market on luck either.

 

BUT, to buoy Mickey's spirits in case they are getting slightly deflated, I will also relate that on that same trip, I NEEDED a second crack at TOC, so on the pre-reserved day of play - in July 2003 - I just filled out the form and put my name on the ballot, asking for a fourball the next day.  I asked for as early as possible.  I expected nothing.

I think we got the 2nd group out.  Mucho perfecto.

So it CAN be done.  Others have similar stories.

TH

[Mickey Boland]

Jamie,

Our B & B hostess supposedly has R & A connections through family.  I was told that this wouldn't necessarily help us with the ballot, but would get us in the clubhouse for a drink.  I'm hoping they were just being modest, and that maybe they do have a little pull.

And thanks for those words Tom.  I've heard the same story enough times that it does give us some real hope.  We're going to have a three-day window to ballot, so I hope that the odds will just be with us.

[Tom Huckaby]

My great wife has conceded to this stag trip (my first to Scotland) as my birthday present for next year.  I've told her that I'm just scouting out the place so that my next trip, with her along, will be the best.

Mickey, you have risen to legendary status.  I consider myself a 5-star General in the Marital Golf Wars, and I have never thought of that one.  It will be added to my arsenal.  I just now have to conjure up the acting skills to make that statement seem sincere... either that or get my wife to play the game such that Scotland has worthwhile meaning to her...

Methinks neither one has a snowball's chance in hell of success.

But you do remain a legend for this.  Well done.  Very well done indeed.

 

TH

ps - just saw your last post - oh my gosh, if you can get in the R&A clubhouse, MAKE SURE AND DO SO.  That is a life experience which damn well may exceed playing the course, depending on how one treats it.  Have a drink resting in the overstuffed chairs facing the picture window... gaze menacingly at those teeing off on 1... good lord is that great fun.  And I haven't begun to describe the awe at the library or the REAL claret jug or original Open trophy etc. etc. etc...

And three days to make it?  Shoe-in.  Worry not.

[Mickey Boland]

Well, I was told to bring jacket and tie to wear for the clubhouse, so that's what we're doing.  After reading your post, I sure hope it pans out.

[Tom Huckaby]

FANTASTIC!

Yes, Jacket and Tie are required.  But that too is just part of the fun.  My god do I look back on that as a great memory... and I always will.

A very cool, very generous man made that happen for me and my friends, as he has for a few others here.  He knows what that meant to me.  But it never hurts to reinforce - thanks again, my friend.

TH

[Mitch Hantman]

I believe the "regular" yardage at Carnoustie is now approximately 6400 yards, which under usual circumstances is enough course to avoid "wedges only".  Carnoustie is notorious for not permitting back tee play, and the reason is pace of play, especially for Americans not used to their style of play.  

Since most starters do NOT have the authority to allow medal tee play, the proper way to accomplish this is to write or email to the Secretary directly, well in advance, stating the time you're playing, and the names and handicaps of all involved.  He will have the authority to allow it.  I found most of them amenable to granting permission, and occasionally the starter will ask that you use the regular tee on #1 only, so as not to start a riot, during peak visitor hours.  

The medal tees are a must for places like Prestwick, where the visitor tees might be set up to play around 5800 or so.  

[Robert Thompson]

Mickey: it is also worth checking the Links Trust website daily, as late availability tee times occur every so often. That's the way we got our last game -- the website listed about 10 days with tee times available.
The R&A has little pull on the course outside of days when they are running their events -- but the clubhouse is very cool.

[Mickey Boland]

Thanks for the tip Robert.

[Bill_McBride]

Lunch in the R&A clubhouse is really a highlight for sure.  But don't do what my brother and I did.....we finished our morning round on TOC and had a drink in the big room, or was it two drinks, and then went upstairs for lunch and had another drink while perusing the menu, or was it two, then had a bottle of wine which was so good we had another.........

You get the picture.  The afternoon round on the New Course became a nap back at the Dunvegan followed later by a rather fuzzy dinner at some Bangladeshi joint.

Life in St Andrews is pretty darn good!  

[Doug Siebert]

It was definitely a lot easier to play the back tees in Scotland when I first went in 1991, I guess the American invasion wasn't yet in full force at the time.  I played everything except TOC from the back then, I just had to ask the starter and present my handicap card (I was about a 6 or 7 at the time)  I didn't find Carnoustie overly long from there, even in a 25 mph wind but it was fairly dry.  I started with a 49 due to some major duck hooking issues, but got those ironed out at the turn and finished with a nifty 38 for an 87 which is probably about what I should have shot then given my handicap, the course and conditions.  When I returned in 2001 they wouldn't let me play back, and I shot an 83 in the rain.  Not much roll that day, even with a Pro V1 the course seemed about as long as I remembered it from 1991!

For some reason that course just doesn't play that difficult for me.  Prestwick's the one that's got my number, when I was there in '91 I shot a 95, I returned in 2001 determined to not be in the 90s again and I was successful.  I shot a 102, sandwiched between a 76 at Turnberry and a 76 at North Berwick.  Go figure!

Still in shock that Carnoustie actually was forcing people to stay in the hotel to book a round.  Is it possible our different experiences about needing stays to book might all be down to the time of year we went?  If Turnberry wants to maximize revenue and knows they are always pretty much booked from mid June to early August, they might require a hotel then but not during the rest of the year.

[Matt MacIver]

Would love some advice on this logisical question....

The way my trip is roughing out, we might stay 4-5 nights in Edinburgh and make two day trips to N Berwick/Gullane and 36 at Muirfield.  

1) Are day-trips from Edinburgh to Gullane "feasible"?

2) For our foursome, should we drive ourselves or engage a driver?  

Many thanks.... I don't know what will be more fun - planning this trip or actually going.

[Bill_McBride]

Matt, trust me (and others) on this, stay in North Berwick or Gullane.  You'll love it, and you won't spend any time fighting the traffic in Edinburgh to get out to Gullane and NB where you'll want to be playing.

Try the Harbour House in NB, call Sheila, it's a great B&B and a short walk to the West Links clubhouse.  http://www.harbourhousehotel.com/berwick.htm

Enjoy!
Bill

[Matt MacIver]

Thanks for the info, if we decide to stay closer to the courses I'll check them out.  But I've got lots of logistical issues and ancillary baggage on this trip, which requires me to stay in Edinburgh for at least a few nights...and I don't want to switch lodging too often....but I want to play these four courses....plus Troon et al, St Andrews area, etc etc etc.  

[Marty Bonnar]

Uncle Bill,
excuse me, but I rather thought it about time I joined in on this thread.

Matt,
I am one of the few ACTUAL Scots who frequents this jamboree, so listen good. What my old uncle says is right proper and correct IF (like him) you're a wee bit, let's say, well, Crusty.

If however, you're between the ages of, let's say again, 25 and 45, then you'll no doubt be wanting the fleshpots, lap dancing bars, casinos, pubs, restaurants, night clubs and general evenings of debauchery which Edinburgh - AND DEFINITELY NOT NB or Gullane - can provide.

They, you see, are lovely wee quiant coastal touristy towns with posh old retired ladies and gents from the city, who like nothing more than a small dry sherry with their prawn cocktail, sirloin (well done) and black forest gateau.

The drive is maybe 40 minutes so you do the math and whatever you decide you'll have a great time!!!

Cheers,
FBD.

[Bill_McBride]

Martin, I would have expected nothing less than for you to encourage the old debauchery routine, I was trying to steer the lad toward a more wholesome environment.  

[Matt MacIver]

Martin & Bill, thanks for comments and advice.  In all likelihood I will have spouse and children in tow on this trip....so extra-curricular events will be zip this trip.  But because I want to limit the amount of moving around AND give them something to do whilst the boys golf, I'm looking at Edinburgh vs. Gullane for a home base.  

[Mike Benham]

If however, you're between the ages of, let's say again, 25 and 45, then you'll no doubt be wanting the fleshpots, lap dancing bars, casinos, pubs, restaurants, night clubs and general evenings of debauchery which Edinburgh - AND DEFINITELY NOT NB or Gullane - can provide.

Let's see, you played golf and shopped on your Northern California stop of your trip to the states.

You then went where for a few days?  VEGAS ... To do what?  the debauchery for which only VEGAS can provide ... (and if you had only asked, all that stuff is availabe in the Bay Area )

[Matt MacIver]

Sean - solid info, thanks!  Might be just what's needed to keep everyone happy, or at least me happy and the rest in check.  Tx.  

[Michael Whitaker]

Matt - If you decide to operate out of Edinburgh call Thistle Taxi for transportation to and from Gullane or Muirfield. We used Thistle during our last trip to Edinburgh and were VERY pleased. Very reliable and reasonable, much cheaper than renting a vehicle and buying gas. The phone number is: 0131 665 9000

If you are staying near Waverly station you can take the train to North Berwick. It's a 30 minute ride and cost us about £7 for the round trip ticket. Taking the train was quite fun and an adventure. The course is a three minute walk from the station. You can also take the train to Dunbar, but the walk to the course is a good bit longer.

Have fun!

[Michael Whitaker]

At St. Andrews and Carnoustie, I don't understand why they don't let you play further back if you keep the pace and show a card indicating you have the game. On a course where the ground is firm, 6,800 or 7,000 yards is not unreasonable.

Robert: On my last trip to Carnoustie (August '04) we were informed that we would have to play from the BACK tees... at something over 7000 yards! Now, my buddies and I are not big hitters and we asked if we could move up a tee. The answer was no... for two reasons: 1) to allow the tees to recover, and; 2) to keep the fairways from getting worn out in the same spots. We played the course at 7000+ yards with a mild wind and only felt overwhelmed by distance on a couple of holes - most notibly the par 3 16th which, for me, was a driver into the wind... center of the green, two-putt for par!

So, it seems that you don't always get "stuck" with the up tees... at least at Carnoustie. It depends on where you fall into the rotation.

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