Cherokee Plantation

[Tim Gavrich]

I had a look at the website, and I was intrigued by the description of the course.  It seemed like it should be far more famous than it is.  Does anyone have any info/pictures of the place.  I also though I heard someone say that there are fewer than 100 members.  Is this true?  Talk about incredible exclusivity.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Good Morning Tim,
  Cherokee Plantation is a Donald Steele course that opened in the late 1990's. It had a Shell wonderful world of golf between Ernie Els and David Duval. The number of "owners" is in the teens with the course seeing less than 1000 rounds a year, many of those by the head pro. The course has some wicked, undulating greens and is always rolling very well along with sod walled bunkers. I think that it's a solid course, but not a top 25 in the state of South Carolina. Ernie just spent 4 days there about a month ago and was asking about how to become a member. Many, many high profile people stop in for a game to get away from everything as they also have duck hunting and other game shooting. Because the course is located down a dirt road, they wash your car while you play!

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Michael Whitaker]

Tony - How many of the "Top 25" courses in SC have you played?

[Anthony_Nysse]

Mike-
  According to Golf DIgest, Cherokee is rated #17 in the state-I've currently played 18 of the Top 25 and don't feel as though it matches up...are you are you questioning my credibility to my statement? As I've said in the past...this is a discussion group, though I view it as an opinion group.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Michael Whitaker]

Wow... Tony, I wasn't intending to "question" anything, just curious how many of the "Top 25" you had played!!! You've got one hell of a hair-trigger.  

Just for curiosity's sake, would you mind sharing your Top 25 in SC? Not the courses on Golf Digest's list that you have played, but your personal Top 25 (or so). I have no intention of challenging you or your choices... just trying get a feel for the breadth of what you like.

Michael Whitaker

[Anthony_Nysse]

Mike,
  My bad on the previous comment-I didn't have the world's best morning and this came off terrible-I need to get in the habbit of proof reading more often! I had just gotten out of church, too!
  Anyways, My personal Top 25 in South Carolina goes as follows in no particular order..

 Long Cove
 Sage Valley
 Harbour Town
 The Ocean Course
 Cassique Club at Kiawah Island
 Belfair West
 Belfair East
 Collecton River-Dye
 Colleton River-Nicklaus
 May River Club
 Haig Point
 The Dunes Club
 True Blue
 Caledonia
 Yeaman's Hall
 Musgrove Mill
 Chechessee Creek
 Briar's Creek
 Secession
 Tidewater
 The River Course at Kiawah Island
 Barefoot-Fazio
 Barefoot-Dye
 Grande Dunes
 Bull's Bay

Hope this clears anything up-Like I said, this is in no particular order.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC
 
 
 

[jim_lewis]

Tony,

I seem to like Cherokee Plantation more than you and the GD raters. I especially like the green complexes and the bunkering. There are less than 30 bunkers, but each is well positioned and looks great.

I took a look at the GD top 25 in SC and your own list. It turns out that I have played 22 courses on each list. I can only think of 5 that I would rank ahead of Cherokee Plantation. One of them is your course.

It's too bad that so few people are able to play Cherokee Plantation. We could probably have a lively discusssion.  I can understand that some would not like the greens. Many of them remind you of smaller versions of the Pinehurst #2 greens. I see that as high praise.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Jim,
  I think that some GCA's would never leave the property if they were allowed on! They'd be studying greens contours well into the next century! It just didn't fit my fancy.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Michael Whitaker]

Tony - That is a great group of courses and I would agree that all of them should be in, at least, the Top 50 in the state. I noticed that every course on your list except two (Sage Valley & Musgrove Mill) are in the Low Country or Grand Strand regions. Do you get to venture out very often to play courses in the Midlands or the Upstate? Some of the courses that might possibly find their way onto your list are: Chanticleer, Palmetto, Cliffs at Keowee Vineyards, Reserve at Lake Keowee, Columbia CC, Camden CC, The Patriot, and Mount Vintage. Have you had a chance to sample any of these?

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

Tony - That is a great group of courses and I would agree that all of them should be in, at least, the Top 50 in the state. I noticed that every course on your list except two (Sage Valley & Musgrove Mill) are in the Low Country or Grand Strand regions. Do you get to venture out very often to play courses in the Midlands or the Upstate? Some of the courses that might possibly find their way onto your list are: Chanticleer, Palmetto, Cliffs at Keowee Vineyards, Reserve at Lake Keowee, Columbia CC, Camden CC, The Patriot, and Mount Vintage. Have you had a chance to sample any of these?

You know Tony you always have some company to play with up here in the Upstate when/if you venture up here to see us.  Although you have played my club, Musgrove we can still go knock it around up here.  Just wait for it to warm up now.  I will be down to see you this time of year.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Turbo,
  The last time that I was in the upstate for golf, was when I first moved down here about 2 years ago. Turbo, you're welcome down here anytime, actually, we shold try to play sometime this winter early spring if time allows at Long Cove. My assistant and boss both got their start with Will at Musgrove, so I hear about it all the time!
  Mike,
  I agree with your comments about Palmetto, Columbia and the Cliffs community. I actually played Walnut Cove 2 weeks ago-I understand that they are building 2 more courses at the Cliffs. I hope to get up to the Patriot in 2006 as the pics I've seen look really good! I've heard some good thngs about the Reserve and realized that it's not too far away, as I saw signs on the highway. Plus, y'all got some bentgrass greens in the upstate, which is always a treat from this northern boy!

[Michael Whitaker]

The last time that I was in the upstate for golf, was when I first moved down here about 2 years ago.

Tony - You've played all those great courses in two years? I'm starting to wonder how much time you spend grooming Long Cove... with the schedule you "super" guys usually keep, I'm impressed!!! Let Daryl or me know when you want to venture outside the safe confines of the low country and we'll sample some courses with a little slope to them. Just be sure to sharpen your spikes!

[A.G._Crockett]

Tony,
Not to threadjack, but there is so seldom discussion of southern courses here that I can't resist.  Just out of curiosity, what do you like about the Fazio course at Barefoot as opposed to the Love course, which you omit?
Thanks in advance, and thanks for the list.

[Tim Gavrich]

I havent played the Fazio course at Barefoot, but I have played the Dye and Norman courses.  I'd say that I liked the Love course the least of the three.  I thought the stone ruins on the 4th and 6th holes were a bit gimmicky, and the fairways were gigantic, as were the greens.  I was told that the greens were 'Pinehurst-style,' but balls never rolled off the sides, so recovery was fairly easy.

The Norman course, while having large fairways as well, is a bit narrower overall, especially with the waste and native areas.  More scenic too, with a few nice holes along the I.W. (especially #10).

The Dye Club, as expected, is very dramatic.  I found the par 3s and 5s superb, and nice variation in length of par 4s.  The greens, while a bit watered down, were still challenging and interesting.

I respectfully disagree with anyone who puts the resort course at Grande Dunes near the top of his/her Grand Strand list.  Sure, it's one of the best-conditioned courses on the GS and an elegant (albeit pre-fab-Tuscan clubhouse), but the superlatives end there.  I find it scenic at times, boring and housing-encroached at other times.  Fairways are difficult to miss, as are most greens, which restricts the variety of shots one plays in the round near the greens.  nearly all the par 4s are between 440 and 480 (from the tips) and they all play very similarly.  Straightaway, big fairway bunker on either the left or right, greenside bunkers on opposite side from fairway bunkers (or sometimes on both sides of the green).  The course gets tedious after a while despite the 2 nice Par 3s at 8 and 14 (but, of course, they're the same length).

[Brent Hutto]

I havent played the Fazio course at Barefoot, but I have played the Dye and Norman courses.  I'd say that I liked the Love course the least of the three.  I thought the stone ruins on the 4th and 6th holes were a bit gimmicky, and the fairways were gigantic, as were the greens.  I was told that the greens were 'Pinehurst-style,' but balls never rolled off the sides, so recovery was fairly easy.

I played the Love course but none of the other three and I really enjoyed it. However, I agree with your observation that the roll-offs on most greens had an impact that was more in theory than in practice. When I played there a couple Novembers ago the course was wet, as seems typically the case on the Grand Strand that time of year. So for instance the fourth hole (I believe), the short two-shotter with the faux-ruins, was thoroughly defeated by the wet area at the base of the elevation leading up to the front of the green combined with the soft greens keeping any sort of shot from getting away toward the back of the green.

Shortly after playing the Love Barefoot course I went over to The Patriot near Greenwood and played a superficially similar Love/Cowley layout which had the advantage of being somewhat firmer. There some plateau greens there which were plenty interesting even though it was winter and they weren't super firm and fast. I think both of those courses are designs which really benefit from at least reasonable firmness and dryness. Otherwise, the width and lack of penal features might leave the better player a little cold even thought it's appreciated by hacks like me.

[John Shimp]

I grew up in SC and find that each year various SC rankings include more new real estate tracks from around hilton head.  Don't know why sc list makers don't hold in high regard the few, truly unique old classics that the state has to offer like Palmetto, Camden, and CC of Charleston.  Yeamans is really the only one that consistently hits the bid.  I find the Belfairs, Colletons, Barefoots, etc to be a lot of the same. Well conditioned, lose lots of balls and tend to be covered with houses condos (not Belfair).  Can't say that Long Cove, Ocean Course, or Harbor Town arent special though.  This isn't the case in most other states (eg NC where I live) despite the fact that many new Fazios are built there each year.  Why is this?

[Anthony_Nysse]

Hi Guys,
  I've been traveling to my parents home in the great white north, (Michigan) so I haven't had time to respond on their slow dial up computer. I'll respod in detail when I get a chance. As to seeing so many of the course that I listed, I work every other weekend, and have been to Myrtle 3 times prior to moving to SC, so I golf as much as I can, though we're way too busy at the Cove in the summer-I don't golf but about once a month. I'll respond more very soon.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Anthony_Nysse]

Okay,
  Well, I know I'm several weeks behind on reply and explaining myself on this, but for AG, here you go....
  I like the Fazio Course at Barefoot because it seems like Fazio and Co. put some thought into building the place. The course reminds me of both Belfair East and West, which I'm extremly fond of, as much as Long Cove, actually. I love the sandy waste areas, and the bunkering was relativly good. The greens ever were somewhat interesting as to those that Fazio has done recently. There is a good mix of distance in the par 4s and 5s-the par 3 are all about the same. Plus the course isn't so long-It just seemed fair and interesting, but had a good, "Lowcountry" feel.  Any southerners up for a game this weekend?

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC