[Adam_F_Collins]

This has probably been discussed, but the 'grain' thread and my recent response to the 'beat Tiger' thread has got me thinking.

How would slow greens affect the modern pro's game? Or green speeds that varied widely from course to course?

People lament the fact that the pros are playing a "totally different game" -

I don't know about where you guys play, but in my world, green speeds and grain are often DRASTICALLY different from one course/day to the next. Would relaxing some of this consistencey be an economical way of bringing more challenge to the pros?

[PThomas]

sure it would Adam...but hell will freeze over before they let it happen!

[Tom Huckaby]

Adam:

I think it would help, but only temporarily.  These guys are good, and eventually they'd gain (or regain for some oldsters) the skills needed to putt inconsistent greens.

Of course making this happen would also be such a boon for highly-contoured greens, if the excuse is to ratchet up the pros' scores, then let's just keep this between ourselves.

 

[Sean Leary]

I agree with Huck but I'm not even sure it would help temporarily. With slow greens these guys could be super aggressive and not worry about blowing putts by...I think they would start making even more mid to long ones.

[Adam_F_Collins]

sure it would Adam...but hell will freeze over before they let it happen!

Well, is it any more far-fetched than having the pro's play a different ball? I think part of the problem is that the professional game seems to play almost within a vacuum when it comes to conditions - and everytime the conditions really vary (like when the wind screams) then it gets a lot more interesting.

Why not begin to really screw around with conditions more on the ground- purposely setting up each venue in reaction to what they faced the week before. Working to make them adjust to more variables - Just like most of the weekend golfers of the world have to do?

[Adam_F_Collins]

Adam:

I think it would help, but only temporarily.  These guys are good, and eventually they'd gain (or regain for some oldsters) the skills needed to putt inconsistent greens.

I'm sure you're right, Tom. And that's just the reason to do it. A need for those forgotten skills whould make it more interesting, and if it was a stimp of 8 one week and 12 the next, and 9.5 the week after that...

[Jim_Coleman]

    Maybe I'm wierd, but I think slow greens are MUCH harder to putt.  Because you have to hit the ball harder, it is easier to make a poor stroke.  Also, slow greens tend to be more inconsistant.
    I'm not so sure that the big boys would disagree.  Whenever they get stuck with slow greens, they complain.  As long as they're not Shinnecock silly, I think they prefer fast (11-12) greens.  If they're stuck with 9's, my guess is scores would actually go up   ...   and they'd bitch.

[Tom Huckaby]

Adam - my point was that if raising scores were the issue, it would only work temporarily.  The skills would be gained and scores would fall back down.

Thus the additional reason to make this happen!

 

[Adam_F_Collins]

Just think about ANGC and The Masters.

Think about what varying the green speed over four days would do - and cost nothing.

Let's say day one, the green speed is 8, then 9  then 10, then 13.

Just think about how differently holes would play. Can you imagine hitting out of the back bunker on 12 if the pin was in front and the speed was 8?

I know it's a bit crazy to think about, but look at the money they're spending to revamp the course. Green speed would make it pretty interesting. Now if the varied green speed and took away the bunker rakes for the Masters, it would be a lot of fun to watch.

- and I think they'd be screaming bloody murder.

[Sean Leary]

Jim,

 I think they bitch because there used to fast greens so when one week is slow, it screws them up. If they varied it as Adam says, that might do it but if they played on consistantly slow greens they would prbably eat it up.

[Adam_F_Collins]

It just seems that there are so many ideas for solutions which only make the pro game further from the rest of us.

To me, variable green speeds is actually closer to the 'real' game of golf that most of us play.

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