[John Kavanaugh]

I hate hairy bunkers and think they are stupid..and another thing, why are bushes in the middle of bunkers not stupid when trees just outside are..

[Mike_Young]

I agree.  Hairy and bushy to the outside of the bunker is ok but if it is between the sand and the green then I have a problem...

[John Kavanaugh]

I've actually had to take a lost ball penalty, slow down play and just get pissed off because of losing a ball in bunker hair...I don't get how it is good for the game.  I don't even think it is natural looking.  It can be pretty though when done right...that must be enough reason.

[A_Clay_Man]

I love bunkers that piss people off and have the ability to ruin their round.

I despise the clean lines of easy maintenance.

 

[Joe Hancock]

John,

It is hard to do hairy correctly. Most of time the hairy gets too much water.....making it jungle-y. When the design dictates the maintenance, not vice-versa, it can be a good strategic element in that the visual just screams "stay out!".

I agree generally that being in the bunker should be worse than outside the bunker. Where I might disagree with that is when a bunker is used to make a slope  near a green or a fairway a workable feature. If you think "safety bunker" then you know what I mean.

Joe

[John Kavanaugh]

I love bunkers that piss people off and have the ability to ruin their round.

I despise the clean lines of easy maintenance.

 

Adam,

I can see you getting a kick out of me getting pissed off...and I'm glad that you agree that hairy bunkers are more expensive to maintain...I didn't think more expensive was more better in your book, even when we are really only talking about eye candy that makes a difference once in a thousand shots..

[Joe Hancock]

John,

I don't agree that hairy bunkers are always more expensive to maintain. In low round situations, I believe they can be much less expensive.

Joe

[John Kavanaugh]

John,

I don't agree that hairy bunkers are always more expensive to maintain. In low round situations, I believe they can be much less expensive.

Joe

Really,  I'd always think sand, hair grass and regular grass would be more expensive than sand and regular grass....seems the economies of scale of one type of grass outweighs the savings of not maintaining the hair as often.

[Joe Hancock]

John,

You're thinking too country club. Imagine hair and bunker, both un-irrigated. Also, grass types matter. Bermudagrass as a hairpiece is going to be a bad toupe...always.

Joe

[Mike_Young]

Joe,
I do agree that water and bermuda don't work for hairy bunkers.  The "look" of low maintenance in a high maitenance situation makes the grass too thick.  It works much better with fescues.  I know one course here in the SE that gets rave reviews on this site that has unplayable and unfair "hair".

[Evan Fleisher]

I've actually had to take a lost ball penalty, slow down play and just get pissed off because of losing a ball in bunker hair...I don't get how it is good for the game.  I don't even think it is natural looking.  It can be pretty though when done right...that must be enough reason.

John,

If that's the case, don't ever bother with Stevinson Ranch...boy!...did they have some unusual spots to have a hairy-edged bunker.

[Tom_Doak]

John:

If you can get people to stop choosing perfect sand and grooming it so that everyone can get up and down, then I will agree 100% with your position.  As it is, though, the edges of the bunker are the only penalty left on most courses.

[ForkaB]

Tom D., et. al.

There is a simple alternative--don't build so many bunkers!  Make the bastards (US!) hit off bare lies from little hollows.  It you want strategery, that does it SOOOOO! (imagine Matt Ward posting here....) much better than pretty big or little sand pits that are really only eye candy.

Respectfully yours

Rich

[A_Clay_Man]

Adam,

I can see you getting a kick out of me getting pissed off...and I'm glad that you agree that hairy bunkers are more expensive to maintain...I didn't think more expensive was more better in your book, even when we are really only talking about eye candy that makes a difference once in a thousand shots..

John, First off, it's not YOU. It is more about the little nooks and crannes of any indiviual's mind, that takes them to a place that BLAMEs thier fate on an outside agency. Which leads to being pissed off. If golf should test anything, it should test the person's emotional quotient besides everything else.

On the surface, of what I think you are talkkng about, I can wholeheartdly agree that finding that clump of grass sucks. However, that doesnt mean it's a bad thing does it?  The randomness of the placement of these things (what you are talking about) adds to the unpredictability factor and the thrill of recovery. (not to mention the creativity required to do so)

Especially in match play, every shot makes somebody happy.

[rgkeller]

John:

If you can get people to stop choosing perfect sand and grooming it so that everyone can get up and down, then I will agree 100% with your position.  As it is, though, the edges of the bunker are the only penalty left on most courses.

I have never played or seen a course where everyone can get up and down from a bunker. Could you point me to one or two?

Deepen the bunkers and give up on pretty and the penalty for bunker hazards will be back. Never heard anyone say "get in the bunker" at Garden City - except occasionally at sixteen.

[A_Clay_Man]

Over-coming deep bunkers is but learning one type of shot. Not exacly a cure all, but then again I have never been to GC.

[JESII]

And I suppose every ball in the fairway should have a great lie and flat stance.

[Paul Payne]

I kind of like the hairy look. At the Minikahda club they have just completed a very extensive rennovation and one of the things they did was to restore the fringes on many of the bunkers as they were in photographs from the mid 1930's.

Not only do I think it is attractive, I also think it restores some of the danger to hazards that in many ways have become pretty tame over the years. Most of the bunkers here are relatively shallow a few with faces of maybe 3 feet or so. The fringe certainly means you can get in more trouble that just a simple sand shot if you flirt with them now.

[Wayne Freeman]

Paul makes a good point about Minikahda, which is a great old Open track in Minneapolis.  The restoration came out very nice, and the bunkers look really cool.  But a lot of the older members were really pissed about it-  a lot of them come into play not too far off the tee and then are severely penal. For one thing they don't have the strength to hit the ball out of them even if they find it.  

[Paul Payne]

Wayne

you are right about pissing people off. In fact there are more than a few members who quit over their dislike of the work being done.

[PThomas]

I like hairy bunkers too....rub of the green if you get in the hair!

or, don't hit the ball in the stuff to begin with!

[Wayne Freeman]

Pauls-   I actually like the hair around the bunkers myself-  I just don't like it when there are so many bunkers that you have to hit absolutely perfect shots all the time to be successful.  I don't mind it if when say playing your second shot to a par 4  there are 1 or 2 greenside bunkers to be avoided-  if you hit in them you have made a major mistake and should have to take your punishment.  But you should still have a safe side or bail area where you can score or get up and down without much trouble. The real problem is again that the old guys without much of any control suffer major damage control and then don't have any strength or risk major injury trying to extricate themselves from said fringes of the bunkers.

[Pat Howard]

I hate hairy bunkers and think they are stupid..and another thing, why are bushes in the middle of bunkers not stupid when trees just outside are..

I have to say I disagree with John's view here, as I do with almost every other comment he's ever made on this site. I really like the hairy look that a lot of architects are starting to use.To me, clean shaven bunkers look out of place anywhere other than ANGC, and even then it's only because the rest of the course looks shaved down too.

I don't know who said that trees just outside a bunker are stupid, unless you have to keep the ball down under them, they are fine too

[John Kavanaugh]

Pat,

Tell me why then hairy bunkers always get phased out as the membership takes control of a course...I just don't think they are worth the expense from a playablility or aesthetic standpoint.  Just look at Pebble..and they are a resort..

[Sean_A]

Pat

Trees intefering with bunker play is an abomination.  The 12th at Tobacco Road has a bunker at the outside turn of the dogleg.  If you go into this bunker there is a tree in the way which eliminates the chance for a great recovery.  All one can do is chip out.  Utter rubbish.  

As for hairy bunkers, I have only played one course with eye lashes, RCD.  They looked alright to me!

Ciao

Sean

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