Just as I love,and I say love the Old Course's #14, 15, and even more specifically #16 (The hole which Bill Coore found inspiration for Talking Stick--North's #2.) I find the hole to be fairly reminescent of Carnoustie #6, which happens to be a very good hole on that course and has the same similar fence line guarding the left side.
From the phenominal shaping of the right side of TS#2 to the placement of the greenside bunker, the hole is simple but yet so interesting, simply because there is a quirkiness and an "GOOD" artificial-ness to the fence line that is in fact inspired by the Great Links of Great Britain, and for me, that is what all of this should really be about--inspiration from the "core model." Mor ethen anything, it is subtle, yet inviting to challenge.
To further, "Why do I think it is a good routing?" Because even as flat as the land may be for some when it comes to actually looking at it, In my trip to Talking Stick, I saw a lot of interesting MICRO MOVEMENT. (An important term) and how it is given up for dead simply because so many architects want much larger movement to work from. Bill utilzed that property line as a FEATURE, albeit an artifical one on a less then glamorous site. He managed to get the 11th and that interesting grouping of holes which surrounds it--to work with hardly a feature to work with it also. It is all because of the routing.
So, let us try to vision Talking Stick-North without a golf course on it. Try to get an idea which that will provide some inspiration while trying to route the course before the first shovel was even turned. Maybe, just maybe, the fence-line was the most important feature on the course, and that is after all, what it takes to route on any course, the proper judgement call of what features are to reign dominant in the routing. It may not be the most dramatic or beautiful feature most have seen, it is however, totally artificial yet makes the best use in regards to the golf.
Talking Stick may not be the most dramatic looking golf course in Arizona, however, I do think it is one of the best.It is certainly a course I could spend the rest of my days playing in complete content.
And yes, I am biased!
To further answer the other questions:
what percentage of the guests there are ever aware of this? Or care? Might the course have been more interesting had more dirt been moved?
Sometimes I think we all forget exactly who Talking Stick was designed for, (the clientele) as well as its affordability (one of the best priced courses in Scottsdale.) I think the greatness of the course lies in its minimilism--simply put, I think that this course is so different then anything else in the Valley of the Sun, and it separates itself from the myriad of courses that all resemble the same look of one another. So, could more interesting features have been added? For most architects, "Yes" absolutely! But in my honest opinion, Bill coore isn't MOST architects, and NO--they don't care because most who have happened upon golf in these boom years don't know what GREAT golf really is. In fact, they mor then likely don't care, and thaqt is what is most disheartening about the game in general. These same people are the ones that feel that PGA Tour is the standard which all Golf should be measured by--Sad, very sad.
When it comes to C&C, they have shown a great diversity in their profile of courses designed and built. They dont just take ever job that comes there way, and they have shown remarkable integrity when they do. I also think many forget just how SUBTLE their designs can be, opting for a attitude for the land to do the describing and the human aspects of it to just as subtlety to reveal it.
--Sand Hills--a private and very exclusive experieince on some of the for pure golf imaginable.
--Kapalua-Plantation--One of the most extreme yet dramatic sites for a golf course to be built upon--yet, it still works better then anything I have every seen on such a extreme site.
--Cheechesse Creek-An ode to Seth Raynor, mixed with South Carolina low-country marshlands.
--Cuscowilla--Classic golf holes with dramatic bunkering on a nearby lake setting which avoids the lake as much as possible.
--Hidden Creek--English Heathlands, which has never been really appreciated for its contribution to the art of golf architecture in this country, by the same type golfers that don't understand Talking Stick.
--Friars Head--Their first opportunity to prove what they could do with sand dunes and judging from the responses I have heard, this maybe one of the greatest courses of our time.(Once again, I'm biased and admit it!)
and finally Talking Stick.......In an area where the average golf round is in the neighborhood of $200.00 per round for a resort course, I'll pay that inflated Troon price of $125.00 anytime!
This might be unfair of me to say this, and it isn't meant to disgrace anyone's efforts, but you take a site here in SoCal like Oak Creek, which is on about the same type of featureless land as Talking Stick (FLAT)
Oak Creek's architect decided to utilize artificial-looking containment mounding throughout the course, no matter how much it affected play. TS however has one, maybe two holes that haave a MINIMUM of containment even near the course, and it works out just fine. If the bunkers at Oak Creek are better then they are at Talking Stick, then I'm a Tuskegge Airman. The greens? FahGitaboutit!
Build a C&C course like Talking Stick on top of Oak Creek in Irvine, and not only is it cheaper to build by about $10,000,000, it is 10,000,000 more interesting to play. I think this would also improve their rounds played in comparison to rounds not played. It is really that bizarre.