[Doug Wright]

While visiting the Cruden Bay area on my Scotland visit in October I had drinks one evening at the Udny Arms hotel bar with a Cruden Bay member. He told me CB is considering some changes to the back nine, namely adding a new par 3 behind the 12th green/13th tee that would play straight down towards the beach/North Sea. This hole would replace the 15th, the longish par 3 that plays over the shoulder of a large dune/hill. He also said they are considering moving the green on the par 3 16th to the right, closer to the beach.

I don't know if anyone else has heard of these proposed changes, and I don't have details as to who, when or even if it's more than talk at the moment. I think the changes could be very promising since (a) the new par 3 toward the beach would certainly be attractive a la #17 at Pebble Beach, and (b) I didn't think much of #15. I like #16 as is, but could see how it could be improved too.

Best,

[Doug Wright]

Sean,

I thought about that but I don't think it is a bad walk (about 200 yds from the green--you have to walk back to the current 15 tee alongside 14 green). Plus if they're replacing a quirky/funky but not great hole with a better hole it would be well worth it IMO. There's plenty of quirk/funk at Cruden Bay to go around...

[Brian Phillips]

The 15th is the only blind, dogleg par 3 in Britain!!

Why change it? It is a great quirky hole and should be left alone.  It sums up Cruden Bay.  If that hole needs to be changed then half the course needs to be changed.

I wouldn't touch it.

Brian

[ForkaB]

I think a new 12th could be great, and a moved 16th green a significant improvement.  How about moving the green of the (now) 14th out of that quirky but boringly deisgned punchbowl to some seaside location forward of the (now) 15th tee?  Then, maybe you could make the 16th into a longer par-3 with a tee on the hillside of the (now) 15th?  And then extend the 17th by putting a tee on the high land that now sits in fornt of the current 16th green?

I can see one of the grandchildren of one of our armchair forensic architects visiting the course in 2050, looking at the hill that now constitutes the "fairway" of the 15th, and saying to one of his(or her) children, "Son, there used to be a golf hole here...."

[BCrosby]

Gosh, and all this time I rather liked the 14th and the 15th.....

Bob

[ForkaB]

Bob

I rather like them too,but "rather" is the operative word.  I think they could be better, and if the club wants to try to do that, why can't they/shouldn't they try?

Rich

[BCrosby]

Rich -

CB's fan base is as large as it is in part (maybe in large part) because of its quirk. And up near the top of the quirk cavalcade at CB is the 14th and 15th. So the folks at CB need to be careful.

Quirk doesn't necessarily mean great, but it is almost always preferrable to mundane.

Bob  

[ForkaB]

Bob

I'm sure the CB people will be careful and not succumb to the mundane.  However, even if they do, it is their course and they will have to live with it.

[Doug Wright]

Bob,

I agree with you re 14. It's one of the holes that makes Cruden Bay unique and a treat to play. Although I'm a big fan of quirk, I'm not sold on 15. That's one exceedingly boring green. Sure it's semi-blind, but that's not enough to make the hole a good one IMO.

[Evan_Green]

If they do change the course, I am thankful I got to see it before it changed. It was one of the best golf experiences of my life. Either way I will most surely return some day. I just hope that when I do, it is exactly the way it is now.

[Yancey_Beamer]

My favorite course in all the world.Why change?

[Michael Hayes]

My favorite course in all the world.Why change?

I agree 100%

[Robert Thompson]

Interestingly, while I could go either way on the 15th, I thought the 14th was an intriguing hole and I think the club risks a lot by reworking it. The tee shot is intriguing and though Rich called the green "quirky, but boring designed", I thought the bathtub was fascinating and a lot of fun.
I can understand why the 15th might be out of step, but the 14th shouldn't be touched. I can't even understand why anyone would want to.

[Brian_Ewen]

Guys
The last time I read about changes to Cruden Bay on here , it was about plans to alter the 10th hole.

I have had no luck searching for the original thread , so does anyone remember why those plans were ditched .

I might be wrong but I thought it was a lack of funds ? .

Brian

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Bob I am on the same page with you.

[Doug Wright]

I haven't heard any talk of changing 14--I agree it shouldn't be touched.

[Tom_Doak]

Robert:

The first time I played Cruden Bay, I was standing on the 14th tee thinking it might be my favorite course in the world.  (What a great-looking tee shot!)

Then I got to my ball in the 14th fairway, and realized that hitting the drive over the corner of the beach didn't really matter, because it was a shortish second shot to that funky bathtub green.

Then came the blind 15th (at least it's challenging), followed by the awkward 16th (where not even the members can predict for sure what's going to happen once their ball lands), and by the 17th tee I was a bit more grounded in my analysis.

That doesn't mean there is a better solution for those holes, but I am intrigued enough that I will go there in the spring to have a look at what they are considering.

I HAVE heard that one of the reasons they are considering changes to the course is that they are concerned about the course being "too short" and "too quirky" and possibly FALLING OUT OF THE RANKINGS because of those factors.  It is an issue for them, as they depend on green fee income to keep the costs down for the members.

[BCrosby]

If TomD is right that CB's reasons for changing is that they think their course is "too quirky", they are changing the course for the worst possible reasons.

People don't travel to play CB because it is highly ranked. People travel there for the spooky Dracula castle ruins, the odd little town, and mostly for the quirky holes at the beginning and end of the golf course. All that is of a piece. It's a unique destination. If CB manages to lose that uniqueness, I worry that they will soon find themselves with an empty parking lot.  

Bob  

[Tom_Doak]

Bob C:  I'm not sure they think the course is "too quirky," although I am certain they've heard an earful about the blind 15th from American visitors who don't like it.  I believe they think the course is "too short" to sustain in the rankings.

The rankings DO make a difference to courses like Cruden Bay, unlike many of the American clubs which tinker because their pride is wounded their courses fall 10 spots.  Without the rankings, not as many people are going to seek out Cruden Bay, and they won't be able to charge the same amounts for visitors' green fees.  Where was it twenty years ago before it was discovered?

But I do agree with your point in general ... they must be sure that in the process of looking at "improvements" in the course, they don't undermine the character which has made it worth visiting to begin with.  I think it's possible to do one without the other, but they have to be careful.

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