[Jay Flemma]

I wrote a piece on my website that I'd like to do a follow up on and would love some help/input from you.  Basically, I noticed gradual changes over time to certain architects styles - it's most notable in bunkering and placement and orientation of hazards.  I used Silva and Engh...Silva to show how over time his strip bunkering, shaping and "green Monster Bunker" developed, then with Engh how his muscle bunkers became more refined and pronounced and how he increased using perpendicular hazards.

For Silva, I used Captains Club, then Waverly Oaks and finished with Red tail and Black Rock (I'll be putting up the "green Monster bunkers tomorrow).  For Engh, I showed Sanctuary (Hawktree would come next, but I havent been there...yet!!), than Redlands and finish with the most pronounced work at Fossil Trace and Pradera.

Can anybody else show me an architects progress/evolution (naming specific courses) that's just as pronounced so I can show people how styles change and refine gradually over time?

Thanks.

[SPDB]

Jay - A while back I started a thread seeking information on the professional/aesthetic development of architects. It flamed out pretty quickly, but got a couple of bites.

Click here to access the thread

[Jay Flemma]

There are some good leads there.  Jeff's work looks great.  I really have to get out to both Minn and Colbert Hills some time.  Jeff, if you're out there, how do you feel about topics like shaping, bunkering and positioning of fairway hazards as well?

Is routing something noticeable from course to course to the naked eye in terms of EVOLUTION of a designer?  rather than "yeah I route better now than before.

I also like what Tom said about his bunkering.  I'm looking at more contemporary designer and, where possible, public courses so more of my readers can go check these things out.

Example...I tried to follow Strantz over time...yes, Caledonia is more mellow than Royal New Kent and Stonehouse.  Would everyone agree Tobacco Road and Tot Hill are even more wild?  Can you see an evolution over time?  What about Monterey Peninsula, though?  Strantz dialed it down a notch in terms of design, but it was his last work.  Personally, I think he did it for the same reason Tom D. says Mackenzie dialed down the DESIGN aspects of Cypress a little in anatomy of a GC...the plot was such a star he didnt want to clutter things to much.  Then of course there is Bulls Bay, which doesnt look like ANYTHING else:)  (I love that place!!!)

How bout Dye?  Or has he done so much its tough to nail down a trend over time?

[John Kavanaugh]

Jay,

Is there anywhere on your blog that lists all the courses you have played..Have you played the Smyers course in Southern Illinois with the Indian name..

[TEPaul]

Jay:

The best examples of a change in style I know of is Donald Ross. He got here so early in golf in this country and he lasted so long (almost fifty years in the business) that the progression of his style is fascinating beginning in or just coming out of the geometric era (Pinehurst, LuLu) with his square flat greens and odd artificial looking features right to a really artistic course like Aronimink in the late 1920s. The difference and the progression is remarkable and noticeable along the way.

[Jay Flemma]

Hey John:  I haven't got a list on line, the 233 are all public courses listed in the top 100 (at one time pr presently) or top 10 in their state or in a particular year.  There is a search engine that you can use to check courses I have written up.  I havent listed the privates in my "233 number", but some private reviews are up too.

T.E. can you list some courses in particular and say what aspect shows evolution?  Thanks.

[A_Clay_Man]

While I haven't seen any of his stuff in Tx. Baxter Spann's New Mexico work is highly indicitive of his progression as a GCA.

From the relatively designed-in undertated Marty Sanchez, to the more creative Great 8 & Riverview. Culminating in the great Black Mesa, Baxter cites other archies and a trip to TOC, as key elements that helped his evolution. Which is readily apparent if one were to vist all of these places.

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