Pasatiempo Restoration Before/After Photos

[Rob_Babcock]

As many of you know, Pasatiempo recently completed the restoration of holes 2-9 & 11. I've created a new Restoration section on the web site which has historical, before, and after photos of many of the restored holes (I've got a few more to go), namely 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 11,  10 & 15 (restored a few years ago). Here's the link:

http://www.pasatiempo.com/web/restore/

Jim Urbina and crew did an absolutely fantastic job -- they are truly artists. What a joy to watch them at work shaping those bunkers. Be sure to compare the historical photos of holes #5 and #8 to see their attention to detail and how great the restored bunkering matches the original MacKenzie designs. Certainly, not just those two holes, but there are good historical photos for those.

Note: Links at the bottom of each before/after photo page take you to the next hole in that section. Enjoy!

Rob

[Tom Huckaby]

Rob - this is fan-freakin'-tastic.  Great photos explaining the FANTASTIC work done there.  I hope you don't mind, but I posted some extremely amateur photos of the new front nine stuff a month of so ago.  I was just so damn excited about the renovated course I had to show the world...

But thank god the professionals have done this now.  That is a HUGE addition to the website.  Fantastic work all around.

One question - I asked someone else this, maybe you can answer - what further work is contemplated, if any?

TH

[John Kavanaugh]

Those new bunkers need some age on them...I have to admit that my first reaction was..Oh my God, those things are ugly..

Please accept this as my honest opinion and not an attempt to incite..

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Bravo!

[Tom Huckaby]

"Ugly" is obviously in the eyes of the beholder.

Seeing them in person last month, I found them stunningly beautiful.  But that's not all that important to me anyway.

Much more importantly, the course PLAYS better now.  #2 has much more going on on the tee shot... #3 adds more fear... #4 gives an ego boost as one blasts over those new shorter bunkers... #7 is doable and less constrained, while still allowing for heroic recovery heavenwoods... #8 green is reconfigured a bit, becoming slightly less absurd.... same for #9....#11 green still is a bitch, but absurdity is removed...

TH

[Bill Gayne]

What a great set of photos!! The restoration of the bunkers and green complexes looks awesome.

[Rob_Babcock]

Tom - You're welcome and I enjoyed your post and photos too. Just last night I noticed that folks were coming to the Pasa web site from golfclubatlas.com, but not to the Restoration page, so I thought I'd let everyone know about the new section.

As for future restoration work, we certainly would like to address the other holes on the back nine that Doak and crew have not yet worked on (13, 14, 16, 17, 18). It probably won't be for a few years (budgeting reasons) and the extent of the restoration for each hole is TBD. Everyone is thrilled with this most recent project, so getting the members on board to complete the course shouldn't be too hard.

[BCrosby]

Rob -

Beautifully done. Congratulations. I look forward to my first visit to Pasa now more than ever.

Looking at the 5th, it is interesting how not being able to see the ridgelines in the distance changes your perception of the hole. As much as the tree removal helps, it would have been nice to retore that long view. I suspect that is easier suggested than done.

Bob

[Rob_Babcock]

Bob - Good observation. One thing we've discussed is to lower the elevated sixth tee (essentially remove it), which is directly behind the fifth green, and move it back just a bit. This would add some length to the par 5 sixth, and perhaps just as importantly, restore the long view up the valley. Of course, things are never as simple as they seem; there is a bathroom built into the ground underneath the sixth tee which would need to be addressed.

Looking at the 5th, it is interesting how not being able to see the ridgelines in the distance changes your perception of the hole. As much as the tree removal helps, it would have been nice to retore that long view. I suspect that is easier suggested than done.

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom - You're welcome and I enjoyed your post and photos too. Just last night I noticed that folks were coming to the Pasa web site from golfclubatlas.com, but not to the Restoration page, so I thought I'd let everyone know about the new section.

As for future restoration work, we certainly would like to address the other holes on the back nine that Doak and crew have not yet worked on (13, 14, 16, 17, 18). It probably won't be for a few years (budgeting reasons) and the extent of the restoration for each hole is TBD. Everyone is thrilled with this most recent project, so getting the members on board to complete the course shouldn't be too hard.

Rob - many thanks.  I remain a huge, unabashed fan of this work and of Pasa in general.  Oh, I criticize the course from time to time, but it's like one's family.... the ones you give the most crap to are the ones you are closest to.  Keep up the great work.  And to say I look forward to the future work is the understatement of the year.  I'm not sure what work is needed on any of those holes... but I have a pretty poor imagination.  One thing's for sure, with the artists you have to do the work, there is no doubt that whatever is decided upon will be executed wonderfully.

TH

ps to Bob Crosby - PLEASE let me know if and when you get out here.  If there is one man I'd love to tour this course with the most - save the Emperor himself, since he and I are a decade overdue in making this happen together -it's you.  Your insight would be VERY interesting to me.  

[George Pazin]

JK, be careful, William Muny was a notorious killer of women and children.

 

[David Druzisky]

Rob,

This is great stuff!  Can we all just try to remember back to no more than 7 years ago when we did no have the ability to spread this kind of awesome information around for all to enjoy via the internet!

Oh yea, Toms guys work is pretty darn good too.

DbD

[Mike Benham]

After careful examination of the photos, both before and after, I believe that Urbina and crew did a fabulous job of recreating the bunkering as seen in the B&W photos.

If we assume that the B&W photos are the original, then the restoration is spot on.

The debate should not be if the bunker work looks right or wrong but whether or not you like the old (circa 2002) green/bunkers or the new (original - circa 1929) configuration.

[Tom Huckaby]

Re #5, understand that the picture distorts things as it is taken from an angle WAY up high, to show the bunker work.  As one plays the golf hole, it is a little uphill - such that the back of the green remains unable to be seen, except perhaps by Yao Ming.  The sightlines from the tee really remain unchanged.

As for #10, that has been discussed many times before.  I think it's better now than it ever has been.  As for the tree in between the bunkers, well... the problem is that had grown into a MONSTER before it was removed.  Also, well... it's stupid.  I guess this gets into the question of how faithful restorations must be, which I won't approach as it's way over my head.  I just remain here to say that #10 is playing better now than it has in my 25 years of playing this course.

TH

[John Kirk]

Rob,

Thanks for the great photos and website.  I played your lovely course last month and enjoyed it as I always do.

Under the small world file, if your father is named Bob (gotta be your dad), then I played a couple rounds with him at the Stanford member/guest tournament many years ago.  He would certainly remember my father Bill.

The other John K.,

I agree with your comments regarding the bunker sand.  I highly prefer typical brown-grayish sand you see on west coast beaches.  Pasatiempo hole #3 now looks like a tiny shelf of green surrounded by a flash of white.  Perhaps this sand has superior playing charcteristics.  Ah well, to each his own.

I have also played Kinloch a few times, and the blinding white sand is one of my only objections to this stellar parkland course.

One of the other John Ks

[Tom Huckaby]

I too am no fan of blinding white bunker sand.  I just didn't notice it much at all when playing Pasa recently... In any case, there's no doubt it will tone down over time... and to me, the placement and playing characteristics outweigh the look anyway.  #3 was a terrifying hole before, now it's a brutal killer.

 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Rob,

The bunker work certainly looks terrific.

I am surprised that noone objected to the ultra white sand.

Typically, if the architect doing the work doesn't enjoy most favored Nation status, that's one of the first criticisms leveled against the work by this esteemed group.  

I"m also a little shocked that Tom Doak didn't complain that this was just another thread with pictures of bunkers.  

And then I remembered that Tom Doak's firm did the work and that he does enjoy most favored Nation.

One only has to view the Merion Bunker threads to see how bunker work is received on this site and that evaluation is often dependent upon the architect and crew doing the work.

Whomever is responsible for "steering" Pasatiempo should be complimented for embarking on the project and Tom Doak's firm should be complimented for the results they produced.

[Rob_Babcock]

Regarding the color of the bunker sand, it is indeed whiter than the sand it replaced, although the exact color at this moment is more subdued than when most of the photos were taken. It is also definitely not ultra white though. I actually prefer the whiter tone, however more important is the playing characteristics it possesses.

A few years ago, after the bunker restoration work on holes 10 and 15 the new sand that was used in those bunkers was far too "fluffy" making it extremely difficult to play out of and resulted in too many buried and "fried egg" lies. Yes, I know a bunker is a hazard, but this was even a bit too much.

The sand used for the newly restored bunkers is of a composition that settles more quickly, achieving a playing characteristic that has been well received by players. I don't know the exact forumulation, but I can tell you that when you're playing your bunker shot, you appreciate the physical characteristics of this bunker sand (as compared to the sand on 10 and 15 for the first year or so) and aren't wishing that it was duller.  

[Kirk Gill]

Beautiful work, and a very interesting and informative website! I look forward to my first round at your beautiful course.

I do have one question. There is a stark challenge to the hazards on the 11th and 15th in the original photos. While the hazards may be as damaging to a players scorecard now as back in 1930, they both look a lot more, well, polite now. Is it just not possible to go back to that more natural, more fearsome appearance, or was it never under consideration?

[ForkaB]

Just from the pictures, and just talking about the bunkers, I like the "before" work better than the "after."  To me it's Catherine Deneuve vs. Brittany Spears, Saks 5th Avenue vs. Victoria's Secret.  I'm not sure what this says about Mackenzie.....

[BCrosby]

Tom -

I would love to meet up. I've wanted to see Pasa for years. I am beginning to think that it, together with TOC, were the two most important predecessors to MacK's design for ANGC. Far more important than Cypress, for example. Lakeside is another important predecessor (for both Jones and MacK), though I hear there isn't much of it left. Nonetheless, I would love to see it too.

Will keep you posted.

Bob

[Tom Huckaby]

Just from the pictures, and just talking about the bunkers, I like the "before" work better than the "after."  To me it's Catherine Deneuve vs. Brittany Spears, Saks 5th Avenue vs. Victoria's Secret.  I'm not sure what this says about Mackenzie.....

Rich - in each case, are you talking about LOOKS or how they PLAY?

 

And I also feel confident that in the case of the bunkers, if you saw them in person your views might change.  As for the women, well that I'd take to be iron-clad unchangeable.

TH

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom -

I would love to meet up. I've wanted to see Pasa for years. I am beginning to think that it, together with TOC, were the two most important predecessors to MacK's design for ANGC. Far more important than Cypress, for example. Lakeside is another important predecessor (for both Jones and MacK), though I hear there isn't much of it left. Nonetheless, I would love to see it too.

Will keep you posted.

Bob

Bob - please do - this would be great fun.

But just to show my juvenile MacKenzie/Jones knowledge... to which Lakeside do you refer?  The one near Los Angeles?  I'm pretty familiar with that course, and although I haven't played it in years, I aim to rectify that in early 2006 if all goes well....

TH

[BCrosby]

Tom -

Yes, the one in LA, designed by Behr. What is your take on the current state of the course?

Bob

[ForkaB]

Just from the pictures, and just talking about the bunkers, I like the "before" work better than the "after."  To me it's Catherine Deneuve vs. Brittany Spears, Saks 5th Avenue vs. Victoria's Secret.  I'm not sure what this says about Mackenzie.....

Rich - in each case, are you talking about LOOKS or how they PLAY?

 

And I also feel confident that in the case of the bunkers, if you saw them in person your views might change.  As for the women, well that I'd take to be iron-clad unchangeable.

TH

Tom

So why do those new bunkers play better?  Please be specific.  "Gosh, Wow, Golly Gee!" won't work when you've got me and Barney on your case.