Turf 101

[Donnie Beck]

With the recent turf threads I figured this could be a good forum for myself and the other Superintendents to answer any of your turf related questions. I am not sure where to start but just wanted to let you know I am willing to discuss any turf related questions.

[mike_malone]

 Donnie,

   Thanks---first question--- Does A-1 A-4 have more trouble taking root in areas with sun and airflow issues versus poa?

[Mike Nuzzo]

How do you get along without irrigation?
What is the make up of your soils/sand?
What is the biggest fish you caught this year?

Cheers

[Michael Hayes]

I would be happy to answer any questions directed to a small budget or all poa course.

Michael Hayes

[Jason Topp]

At my course when preparing the greens to be covered in the winter, there were a bunch of little circular holes about 2" in diameter filled with some rocks similar to what can be found at the bottem of a fish tank.  What is going on?

[RJ_Daley]

What would you rather maintain lean and mean on FWs in northern cool grass zones if you had your druthers, dwarf blues or bent?  Which is the more economical assuming the dwarf blues are cut to lowest height tolerance maintainable, which is what height in your best judgement?

[Don_Mahaffey]

Jason,
I'd ask your super to get what you know for sure would be the correct answer. My guess is those are drain holes drilled to get any water off the low areas in an attempt to prevent ice damage.

RJ,
I'd vote for blue and maintain it at 7/16-1/2 inch. But, I've never maintained bent fwys, so there's sure to be someone out here who can give you a more informed answer.

[Troy Alderson]

As a superintendent I am willing to answer any questions I may know, BUT I also encourage anyone with questions to approach the superintendent at the golf course you play and get to know him/her.  They will have the correct and better answer than any of us.

RJ,
There are only two golf turfgrasses in my book, fescue and bents, all others are weeds.  A nice mix of fescues and bent will cover the micro-environments within the golf course property and require alot less water and fertilizers than the other turfs used in golf.  Yes, my home course is mostly perrenial rye and kentucky blue with some bent all planted before I was hired.  Now I have to maintain them without the appropriate funds in my budget.  That would not be a problem if fescues and bents were planted strictly.

Troy

[Donnie Beck]

1st and foremost I agree 100% with Troy. Your own Superintendent knows more about your specific course than anyone. Don't be afraid to ask them. Most Superintendents I know love to talk turf!

Mayday,
I really don’t have any experience with the newer varieties of bents, but under those circumstances I would guess that yes the Poa would have an advantage.

Mike,
There are times I wish I had it. Just because you have irrigation doesn’t mean you have to run it all the time. This past year we went 52 days without rain and we definitely lost some grass in the fairways. It played awesome while dormant, but we had some of the worst conditions I can remember this fall as it came out of dormancy. We lost a lot of grass on the hills and ridges and cart entry and exit points.
Our soils are mostly sandy loam, but it really varies around the course. Some areas are straight sand while others have more clay than you would expect, but overall we drain very well. The biggest bass this year was 42” 35 lbs.

RJ,

I have been seeding our fairways the last 6 years with 60% fescue and 40 % colonial bent. This fall I changed the mix to 50% fescue 25 % colonial and 25% low cut blue. Our fairways are cut 3X week at 5/8” with primo apps every 3 weeks except during dormancy.

[Pat Jones]

Donnie:

Forget golf, I want to come fishin' at your place!

I'll settle for a little old 20-pounder...

PJ

[Craig Sweet]

I would gladly trade Donnie some fishing in Montana for a day of golf on his course and some turf 101 education...perhaps a "working vacation" for me!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Donnie Beck, et. al.,

If you had your druthers, in the Northeast, would you cover your greens in the winter ?

[Donnie Beck]

Pat,

I think covers would be beneficial at Fishers due to our elevated green pads. With our greens being elevated the wind blows most of the snow off of the greens and we get some desiccation from the greens being exposed all winter. I also think covers would help us raise our soil temps in the spring. We are usually a few weeks behind other clubs in the spring due to the cold water temps. We don't start getting real active growth until Mid May. Fortunately we also don't open for play until then either, so we have been able to get by without covers.

[TEPaul]

"Donnie Beck, et. al.,
If you had your druthers, in the Northeast, would you cover your greens in the winter?"

Pat, you idiot, if Donnie Beck put covers on his greens in the winter they'd all be in either Long Island or Rhode Island inside a week.

Yeah, Donnie, I have a question for you alright. How is it that you can cut your greenside bunker surrounds so low and so tight a slightly missed ball can roll off and filter right into them? Because you seem to do that at Fishers this Charles Wilmerding character of ours and yours now wants the bunker surrounds at GMGC to be that way and we just can't do that, no way, no how!

So my question to you is, are you willing to come down here and show us how to do that as well as take responsibilty when our bunker surrounds completely crap out or else will you quit doing what you do to yours at Fishers so C. Wilmerding will keep his yap shut down here in Philadelphia on this subject?

[TEPaul]

Donnie, I have a real Turf 101 question for you which I asked about five times a few weeks ago to some really good supers and I guess I got an answer although I'm not completely sure.

The question is how and why can some fairway grass (like yours) go dormant for so long and just snap right back about a day later after a rain and other grasses don't go dormant at all, they just crap right out almost immediately and are deader than a smelt even if it pours?

Is it as simple as the difference between really durable grass and grass that basically lives in the "emergency ward" of constant chemicals and remediation and just can't fend for itself in Nature?

[Donnie Beck]

Tom,

The answer to your question is simple. Bunker Banks at 2 1/2" with no water or fert input at Fishers = nice bunker banks that release. Bunker banks at 2 1/2" with no input at Gulph Mills = Dead bunker banks that also release.
What works at one place won't always work at another, ut you already knew that!!!!

[TEPaul]

Donnie:

Why aren't your bunker banks dead then? Does this basically answer my last question about dormancy vs death? Is there any chance you can just bring some of your bunker bank grass down here and we can just glue it on?

[Don_Mahaffey]

I used to think "permanent wilting point" was the coolest way of saying your grass crapped out. But "deader then a smelt" is my new term

As in, "my poa is deader then a smelt" hopefully not, "I killed that green deader then a smelt"

[TEPaul]

Don:

Deader than a smelt was something my Auntie Mame-like stepmother used to say a lot. I never did get around to asking her what she thought was so dead about a smelt and it's too bad I didn't because about 90% of what came out of that lady's mouth was hilarious and the other 10% would burn your ears it was so profane.

[Donnie Beck]

Tom,

It all comes down to Roots and Carbohydrate reserves. When we go dormant in July or August we have 16" of roots. You shut the water off to the same plant with 2" of roots it is "deader then a smelt"

[Joe Hancock]

I like it....the Don's are at your service!

If you can't get the right answer out of these two guys, you're asking the wrong question!

I'll be reading to learn from my heroes.

Joe

p.s. To combine Don's post with Don's hobby...I went fishing the other day. I caught two mermaids and one smelt.

[TEPaul]

"Tom,
It all comes down to Roots and Carbohydrate reserves."

Is that really all there is to it? Are you absolutely sure about that? I don't know what carbohydrates are but what if we coated our grass with a liberal reserve of dead smelt emulsion? Do you think that could possibly give us 16" Roots?

[Don_Mahaffey]

Ok, some will argue that you should water every night, and to be fair, if you want to have good looking turf everyday then you probably should if your water quality allows for it. But, if you want to grow roots, deep roots, so when that faithful day comes in mid-July and your pump station is ‘deader then a smelt” and you don’t want your turf to reach the permanent wilting point, then use deep, infrequent!

Below is a link that will probably bore you to tears so I copy and pasted one paragraph that may be of interest.



http://www.turfgrasstrends.com/turfgrasstrends/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=156340

“All cultivars receiving daily irrigation produced roots in the top 10.2 cm to 12.7 cm, while cultivars at the 15-day treatment produced roots greater than 30.4 cm (Data not shown). This was expected, as root length and growth increase as water becomes limited. The main function of a root is to intercept water and nutrients and as water decreases, roots continue growing downward in the soil profile in search of water.”

[Bill_McBride]

Here's a Southern turf question:

What is the experience with the new Champion hybrid for greens vs Tifdwarf?

This is on the Gulf Coast, no overseeding for winter.

[Craig Sweet]

Don, can you get away with "deep, infrequent" irrigating in Bend?

If so, how long did it take you to 'condition" the turf to infrequent irrigation?