Individual Trees that must be carried

[John_D._Bernhardt]

I love having one hole with a tree to deal with of the tee or a 2nd shot on a course. The 13th is a wonderful par 5 on my home course here that has a tall Cypress in the middle of thye fairway 150 from the middle of the green. It makes the hole. There is only one place and it is a small window of the tee to hit the green in two because of it. More often than not you lay up shorter because of its influence of the 2nd shot. I guess the pine in fornt of 18 at Pebble does not coun. It sure impacts the location of your 2nd shot there.

[Tim T]

I like the tree guarding the 8th at The Country Club...

...and the one that used to be there on #14 (!)....

In neither case, "must" the tree be "carried", but I think they help the holes...

[ChipOat]

To: TEPaul - see e-mail I sent.

As to the use of trees as a design feature:  to each their own but not for me.  I'd much rather see the "bail out" second shot on the 18th at Pebble leave a tough 3rd to a re-designed (severely angled) green than a tough 3rd because of a tree.  I applaud the design concept of making the angle of the 3rd shot easier by being closer to the H2O on the 2nd - I just don't like trees as the main problem.

[BillV]

chip, I like you already!  Somebody to argue with Tommy Paul about trees with.  
All this balderdash.......

I was still wondering if anyone had played Belfair East #16?

[TEPaul]

BillV:

Although I admit it's fun to argue with you, on the use of trees in golf and its strategies you should refrain from assuming that I'm advocating them vs advocating their total removal and removal from strategic use as a feature in golf architecture! I'm not trying to argue with you on this, just conduct an analysis of an available golf feature.

All I'm trying to do is two things;

1/ Look at their use in a strategic context and analyze whether they have a place to make things in golf more challenging, interesting, or whatever other positive ramifications one might be able to come up with! Trees, to me, in this way are just another of many interesting and useful golf features, like bunkers, green setups, orientations, contours, angles, whatever, or any of the numerous other features. My point is they don't have to be used, just CAN they be used with effectiveness?

And #2: To analyze their use in the minds and architectural plans and creations of some very good and interesting architects such as William Flynn, A.W. Tillinghast and George Crump! It is interesting to me what some of these men thought and did with their designs in this context and I would expect you to recognize that and consider it too if you have respect for these men and their creations which I would expect that you would!

[Scott_Burroughs]

I just played Strantz' Caledonia for the first time yesterday, and there was a tree guarding the right half of the 7th green that wasn't intrusive at all.  A high-handicapper could go for the left side of the green with a right side pin placement (as it was for me).  Also, any drive in the left side of the fairway on #14 will have a tree blocking view of the green.

[archie]

I think you have to be real careful going overboard about trees that must be carried, even on dogleg holes. In that it is very hard to design courses that test all levels of skill and not just the ability to hit it high and far, trees can be real bad.
I can cite multiple examples without leaving South Jersey with bad trees, that give way too big an advantage to the long hitter, who already has a leg up on most golfers. Typically the long hitter can rip it past the tee with impunity, while the mere mortals playing golf must hit some kind of trick shot to escape the same hazard, on their next shot. It is imperative to give a bail out or alley for the short but straight player to hit the ball, to minimize the advantage of length.

We have a wonderful tree on number 5 at Greate Bay, an old Willie Park course, where the average player can hit his slice (fade) tee shot around the tree, while the skilled player must watch out, because the tree impacts him more. It is set approximately 120 yards out in the far right corner of the fairway, and the low ball hitter can easily burn it under, now this is a good tree. Likewise we removed a lot of trees on a dogleg over water because the corner was over 230 yards on a 435 par 4 and impacted the short hitter dramatically, literally forcing a lay-up second. Now anyone who can hit it far enough to reach the green in regulation can have at it even if he(she) is hitting a three wood on their second shot. Interestingly enough an older member who previously couldn't get on the green before the deforestation made our ringer board this summer, holing out with a four wood for a two he will never forget. He proudly accepted his horseshoe for making a ringer!  Again , be afraid, be very afraid , of trees that reward only the Jack Nicklaus, Tiger Woods of your membership!

[Jason Mandel]

 It also appears to be if not the first, one of the first by GCA legend Dave "Shivas" Schmidt